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Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

news.yale.edu

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Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#41

Post by AnimalMuppet »

disabled wrote: post #33
intergalplan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically all US regional accents, especially if thick, register as "lower" than Standard American English spoken with a generic or newscaster accent.

There is no Standard US English accent. Even people from the US Pacific Northwest speak with an accent. Interestingly, there are AI apps to make your English accent [1] more mainstream, but the fact is that judging a person by their accent is xenophobic. Anyways, I practice my pronunciation for a foreign language using speech recognition software/apps. [1] Class Is in Session: AI App Schools on English Pronunciation:…

The national news anchors de facto define the standard US accent.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#42

Post by TameAntelope »

hnxs wrote: post #27
heterodoxxed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two are so incredibly intertwined given our history that it's hard to separate them. While I think talking about race without talking about class is a huge mistake, it's also a mistake to think that class in a way that doesn't take race into consideration. For instance, AAVE is seen as "low class" despite there being plenty of speakers of it who are not lower class at all. The kind of racial reductionism we've se…

I think class is primarily dictated by three things on a superficial level, e.g ten minutes or less of a first interaction with someone: - How you speak - How you dress - How physically attractive you are, specifically in regards to things like height, fitness, and angular features. Skin color takes a backseat to these factors in the modern era

Yes, with the addendum of, "If any of these things place you into a minority community, you immediately lose."

What is "good speech"? What is "good dress"? What is "attractive"? To much of society, those answers are, "Whatever sounds/looks like the popular culture I consume." and that's a problem.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#43

Post by newacct583 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #30
vmception wrote: post #3

I think US-bias is more so class bias than race bias and this comes with a 99% correlation to racial discrimination due to the half millenium of directly ensuring certain races could not access the economy or capital or literacy. Racial discrimination also occurs. A lot of support for racial equality is lost because it is too reductive and invalidates the experience of potential allies in the majority power who exper…

> class bias is never addressed at all You see this a lot in online forums, e.g. a person will blithely mock "wal-mart shoppers" or "rednecks" without rebuke and then jump down your throat with "white privilege" if they perceive the slightest possiblity of you questioning a racial bias claim.

Interestingly, I see some of the former in online forums. I see a decent amount of the latter, both with and without justification. I've never in my life seen a single poster do that. You have a cite demonstrating this happens "a lot"?

This sounds like a strawman. You're taking a criticism often made (again, not without justification) against "your side" and arguing against it by charging the "other side" with hipocrisy despite the fact that e.g. the /r/FloridaMan community has almost no overlap with woke SJWs (or even the surburban families in my neighborhood with BLM signs in their yards).

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#44

Post by throwawayboise »

hn8788 wrote: post #34

Doesn't suprise me. My wife is from a rural town in NC, and was told by her high school teachers that she needed to lose her southern accent if she wanted to be taken seriously in college. When she was working on or master's degree in Maryland, a writing professor commented "you speak and write so well, I never would have guessed you're from the south". That kind of discrimination is very prevalent in academia and me…

Yes, but this illustrates that it's possible to make changes in how you present yourself to overcome potential class biases. This levels the playing field a lot. And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#45

Post by motoxpro »

throwawayboise wrote: post #44
hn8788 wrote: post #34

Doesn't suprise me. My wife is from a rural town in NC, and was told by her high school teachers that she needed to lose her southern accent if she wanted to be taken seriously in college. When she was working on or master's degree in Maryland, a writing professor commented "you speak and write so well, I never would have guessed you're from the south". That kind of discrimination is very prevalent in academia and me…

Yes, but this illustrates that it's possible to make changes in how you present yourself to overcome potential class biases. This levels the playing field a lot. And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?

"Don't speak like you, speak like me"

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#46

Post by kthartic »

jpxw wrote: post #16

> the hiring managers judged the candidates from higher social classes as more likely to be competent for the job, and a better fit for it than the applicants from lower social classes. What if applicants from higher social classes actually are better fits for the job?

What if they’re not?

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#47

Post by throwawayboise »

howeyc wrote: post #7

I've always wondered with things like this, could it be possible to make all interaction "text-based" until final stage? Specifically for hiring: What if applicants submitted resumes, but the name and school they attended are replaced with numbers. Then throughout the interview process all interactions were text-based and they were addressed by this number. Then offer/acceptance is based on merit (hopefully) and not…

Because (admittedly an extreme example) if I'm hiring for a public-facing position, I don't want to get someone with pink and blue hair, excessive piercings and poor hygiene even if they're smart and capable of performing the job function otherwise.

In at least some cases, presenting and conducting yourself as a "normal" person is important.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#48

Post by flavius29663 »

vmception wrote: post #3

I think US-bias is more so class bias than race bias and this comes with a 99% correlation to racial discrimination due to the half millenium of directly ensuring certain races could not access the economy or capital or literacy. Racial discrimination also occurs. A lot of support for racial equality is lost because it is too reductive and invalidates the experience of potential allies in the majority power who exper…

as a white that grew up very very poor, I can't possibly understand why so many black people try to convince me that I'm guilty of white privilege, when most of them had many more resources growing up.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#49

Post by indymike »

jpxw wrote: post #16

> the hiring managers judged the candidates from higher social classes as more likely to be competent for the job, and a better fit for it than the applicants from lower social classes. What if applicants from higher social classes actually are better fits for the job?

> What if applicants from higher social classes actually are better fits for the job?

What a perfect example of social class bias. Change "from higher social class" to "from purple descent" or "from a Pastafarian background" and you have racial or religious bias.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#50

Post by this_user »

throwawayboise wrote: post #44
hn8788 wrote: post #34

Doesn't suprise me. My wife is from a rural town in NC, and was told by her high school teachers that she needed to lose her southern accent if she wanted to be taken seriously in college. When she was working on or master's degree in Maryland, a writing professor commented "you speak and write so well, I never would have guessed you're from the south". That kind of discrimination is very prevalent in academia and me…

Yes, but this illustrates that it's possible to make changes in how you present yourself to overcome potential class biases. This levels the playing field a lot. And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?

This is pretty much the idea behind Received Pronounciation in BE.
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