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Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

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Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#41

Post by captainmuon »

Around 2004 I visited the chipmaking industry in Dresden on a university field trip. We went to AMD and to AMTC (Advanced Mask Technology Center). It looked like they were doing pretty well, they were increasing production capacity and also doing research, and AMD and others were investing a lot of money. I think now the whole campus belongs to Globalfoundaries.

It is really sad how the domestic/western production became irrelevant. We lost it just like we lost our lead in solar energy (which was also based in the Dresden area by the way). And (at least solar) in my opinion for completely stupid reasons. The supposedly business-friendly German government went yolo, free trade and slashed the subsidies. And now they are turning around and trying to create industries from nothing? For solar, the ship has sailed, and for chips I think it is also way too late. Why didn't we support the industry we had?

China is steamrolling us, because 1) they think and act strategic, 2) size-wise, they are not one country but many countries and city-states working as one and 3) they are beating us at our own game because we have a slavish devotion to WTO principles while they will use protectionism if it benefits them. The thing is: Europe could have done most of this, too.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#42

Post by saveduaclick »

dijit wrote: post #40
lnsru wrote: post #3

Will I get lots of rotten tomatoes telling, that this is a huge waste of money? Chips production is one thing, but the whole ecosystem matters. So these chips produced in Europe must be sent back to Asia for integration in final products. Or a miracle will happen and European Union will resurrect manufacturing? I doubt, because manufacturing means missing climate goals.

We actually do have a lot of manufacturing in the EU; maybe not cheap plastic gizmos that you find at the store, but we have a relatively rich automotive industry which reaches into aerospace engineering and agriculture.

A manufacturing network that is closing down. Export market shares in the world keep falling. The best Europe can do is to protect whatever they can keep of the past glories. That should be good enough!

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#43

Post by throwaway4good »

lnsru wrote: post #3

Will I get lots of rotten tomatoes telling, that this is a huge waste of money? Chips production is one thing, but the whole ecosystem matters. So these chips produced in Europe must be sent back to Asia for integration in final products. Or a miracle will happen and European Union will resurrect manufacturing? I doubt, because manufacturing means missing climate goals.

Highend chip fab got to be big security / geo politics due to the US-China tech war.

TSMC is under a perceived threat from China, and the US has prohibted the Chinese from using TSMC.

This leaves a lot of business open to take. The US wants it back on their soil with the TSMC plant in Arizona.

The Europeans want something similar.

After all we have ASML here in the middle of western europe and god knows how many mid-sized factories. Surely this is not a stupid idea. Perhaps we can make the chips for Huawei here in Germany so everyone knows the phones and routers are safe and secure to use.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#44

Post by tasubotadas »

captainmuon wrote: post #41

Around 2004 I visited the chipmaking industry in Dresden on a university field trip. We went to AMD and to AMTC (Advanced Mask Technology Center). It looked like they were doing pretty well, they were increasing production capacity and also doing research, and AMD and others were investing a lot of money. I think now the whole campus belongs to Globalfoundaries. It is really sad how the domestic/western production be…

Germany lost its edge not because of missing subsidies but because there are too many of them.

Germany is taxing companies and people too much (40-50%) so capital is leaving the country.

Actually, the same can be said about most of the western Europe.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#45

Post by kungito »

ginko wrote: post #23
shimonabi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop mixing Europe with the EU. EU is a few decades old failed experiment, Europe exists for thousands of years. There is only talk of subsidizing EU chip production, because a few German car executives got worried.

>EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?

Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. Eurosceptics often focus on one small part of being a part of EU and hate the whole idea for it. While EU gave many good things, opening up markets made many people lose jobs because they weren't prepared or they got crushed by the economies of scale of bigger companies which they were protected from before. On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#46

Post by kyriee »

tasubotadas wrote: post #44
captainmuon wrote: post #41

Around 2004 I visited the chipmaking industry in Dresden on a university field trip. We went to AMD and to AMTC (Advanced Mask Technology Center). It looked like they were doing pretty well, they were increasing production capacity and also doing research, and AMD and others were investing a lot of money. I think now the whole campus belongs to Globalfoundaries. It is really sad how the domestic/western production be…

Germany lost its edge not because of missing subsidies but because there are too many of them. Germany is taxing companies and people too much (40-50%) so capital is leaving the country. Actually, the same can be said about most of the western Europe.

The capital might be the problem.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#47

Post by coldtea »

chrisseaton wrote: post #37
coldtea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Airbus own words: "Airbus values not only its relationship with airlines and helicopter operators in China, it also appreciates the enormous value offered by Chinese industry; components produced by Chinese companies are currently found on all production Airbus commercial jetliner types."

What point do you think you're making with that quote? They use Chinese components... to manufacture planes... in Europe.

What point did you think I was making initially?

"plus a lot of assembly to be able to call the final product e.g. "german made" and have the associated tax-cuts..."

Or, in your words:

"They use Chinese components... to manufacture planes... in Europe."

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#48

Post by runawaybottle »

captainmuon wrote: post #41

Around 2004 I visited the chipmaking industry in Dresden on a university field trip. We went to AMD and to AMTC (Advanced Mask Technology Center). It looked like they were doing pretty well, they were increasing production capacity and also doing research, and AMD and others were investing a lot of money. I think now the whole campus belongs to Globalfoundaries. It is really sad how the domestic/western production be…

Europe could have done most of this, too.

Let’s just zoom out for a second and admit Europe has done this for centuries already, with just about everything.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#49

Post by throwaway4good »

gman83 wrote: post #17

Can someone explain to me why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries. Why do they need Intel or TSMC?

I don't think there is a good reason other than the willingness to invest in the area has not been there until now.

Re: Europe Is Trying to Reclaim Its Lost Chipmaking Glory

#50

Post by MomoXenosaga »

TSMC got where it is today because of the Taiwanese government. Same goes for ASML- bled money for decades but the Dutch government grants managed to get them over the finish line. Canon and Nikon had the misfortune that the Japanese government was too busy saving the economy after the crash.

Government sugar daddies. The dark secret neoliberals don't want you to know.

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