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Tesla Q1 2021 Results

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Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has already lost marketshare in almost every market so they won't be bigger than Ford in 2 years. They will likely lose their regulatory credits some time this year because VW, Audi, Porsche and Ford have strong offerings.

How does Tesla lose market share while achieving record (+ 109%) sales? The market certainly hasn’t been growing faster than Tesla has.

Because the EV market grew much faster, e.g. +260% for Germany (from 108k in 2019 to 395k in 2020).

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#342
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look it up but for reference in Q1 2021 the big auto makers delivered the following. Ford: 521,334 GM: 642,250 Toyota: 2.46 million VW: 2.5 million If Tesla holds up they'll be larger than Ford in 2 years and be the largest automaker in the world in 4 years.

Nissan has sold more of the Nissan Leaf worldwide than Tesla has sold all its models combined. Edit: it has been pointed out that this is incorrect. Apparently, Leaf sold as much as Tesla sold in 2020.

I quick bit of Googling finds that just the Model 3 has sold ~800k while the Nissan Leaf as sold a total of ~500k

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#343
post #292
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look it up but for reference in Q1 2021 the big auto makers delivered the following. Ford: 521,334 GM: 642,250 Toyota: 2.46 million VW: 2.5 million If Tesla holds up they'll be larger than Ford in 2 years and be the largest automaker in the world in 4 years.

Right now Tesla is outperforming competition on three points: * 0-100km/h times * Range * Charging network I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed. And most people can live with a little less range. So this leaves the network as a selling point. I believe it depends on the country how important this is. For example in the Netherlands you can cross the whole country on one charge. So you don't need a ne…

In the European market the range advantage might not be a big deal, but it's a major selling point in the American market. Probably the biggest concern I hear from people about going electric-only is range anxiety - the notion that they might need to drive a long distance on a whim and worry they might be "stranded" with no battery, regardless of the actual likelihood of that. With America's generally poor public transit infrastructure and car-as-default culture, it's even a fairly reasonable concern in many cases.

Maybe once the charging network becomes as saturated as gas stations are range can no longer be an issue, but we're nowhere near that point outside of major cities.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#344
post #50

> We believe that a vision-only system is ultimately all that is needed for full autonomy. Our AI-based software architecture has been increasingly reliant on cameras, to the point where radar is becoming unnecessary earlier than expected. As a result, our FSD team is fully focused on evolving to a vision-based autonomous system and we are nearly ready to switch the US market to Tesla Vision. This is a huge gamble IM…

Because that adds cost. The game here is producing a car that is cheap to manufacture that can drive itself without having to have a data center in the trunk and a large lidar bump on the roof.

The gamble here is on the software, not the hardware. All the accidents that happen are not a failure of sensors not sensing but of software not detecting what the sensors captured. We're talking cars crashing into things on a clear day. Cars not recognizing situations that a human would recognize from the captured video. Etc. They need to solve that anyway. Regardless of whether they have lidar or not.

Other companies like Waymo pushing the Lidar agenda are also behind on their schedules to launch autonomous driving. But at least they have actual driver less cars on the road right now driving actual passengers around in very select markets.

Either way, this is more or less a greenfield market without a lot of contenders shipping actual products yet. So, Tesla can afford to spend more time developing this market. If they nail this somehow, eventually, it will be a big growth driver for them.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#345
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now Tesla is outperforming competition on three points: * 0-100km/h times * Range * Charging network I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed. And most people can live with a little less range. So this leaves the network as a selling point. I believe it depends on the country how important this is. For example in the Netherlands you can cross the whole country on one charge. So you don't need a ne…

You forgot: * Software

Do you really want software auto-updates with potentially breaking changes in your car though?

Chances are, you will end up with the iPhone situation, where a 10-year-old phone is now essentially a brick - the software 'updates' just made things slower on the older hardware, if they support the older hardware at all. Do you really want that in your car?

For comparison, you can get a 20-year old car today that would work today as well as on the day it was made - mechanical controls still respond instantly, radio still works.

And then suddenly you find that the Teslas are a lot more expensive than they seem, because the depreciation will be more severe. Not only that, but I would question their green credentials if the cars are forced to become obsolete after N years.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, you seem to have misread the report you quoted. Germany's not-so-secret is lignite, a dirtier kind of coal supplying 16.8% of its electricity. Lignite together with traditional coal at 7.3% supplied 24.1% of Germany's electricity. [0] [0] https://strom-report.de/germany-power-generation-2020/

And steadily declining year on year. The next government is likely to feature the green party and possibly even a green party prime minister. IMHO that will set in motion an accelerated shut down of lignite and coal, which only narrowly got averted by the CSU in the current government (the CDU looked more likely to compromise on this). Even so, it will likely take a while. Otherwise the headline here is that renewabl…

Lots of reasons to expect accelerated lignite shutdown and solar/wind buildup indeed. And quite impressive to see that 50.5% of Germany's electricity production was wind, sun and water already!

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#347
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has already lost marketshare in almost every market so they won't be bigger than Ford in 2 years. They will likely lose their regulatory credits some time this year because VW, Audi, Porsche and Ford have strong offerings.

If the market expands faster than your market share shrinks, your business still grows. Examples: IBM with IBM PC, Apple with iPhone.

Examples: IBM with IBM PC

And we all know how many IBM PCs IBM has sold over the past decade.

I think that IBM might actually be the most apt analogy for Tesla. 20 years from now Tesla will be a niche player in the market they built basically from scratch.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I'd agree it would be a major EV setback but there are so many other options now I don't think that's the case any longer. I'm very optimistic about Rivian. It's Tesla but without the ego thinking they are smarter than 50 years of manufacturing lessons.

I think that if Tesla were to go belly-up because of some sharemarket issue, that it'd be very easy for all the other manufacturers to back off their BEV plans. Not necessarily outright cancel them, but just not push for it and possibly let it fizzle somewhat. They'd have the excuse that "Well, Tesla failed, and they were more valuable than all of us combined at one point, so... we'll just be more cautious" One major…

> Europe and the UK have put down standards and basically forced some level of interoperation between charging network systems, which reduced friction for EV owners.

They standardized the connector, but the problem (at least in my area in Austria when I looked into it 2 years ago) was that there are so many competing charging networks with different contracts and pricing models that it was basically unusable.

Near my house there were 3 chargers from different companies, each with space for two or three cars. If I wanted to use either of them, I would have to sign up with three networks, pay monthly fees for two of them, and have vastly different prices on each of the chargers.

The fast charging prices were also so high that I'm not sure it's any cheaper than a gasoline car.

I don't know if it's gotten any better since then, but as far as I could tell EVs only make sense if you can charge the car either at your home or at your workplace.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#349
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now Tesla is outperforming competition on three points: * 0-100km/h times * Range * Charging network I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed. And most people can live with a little less range. So this leaves the network as a selling point. I believe it depends on the country how important this is. For example in the Netherlands you can cross the whole country on one charge. So you don't need a ne…

The efficiency (miles per kWh) of Tesla's is still quite ahead of the competition. This allows for relatively smaller/cheaper batteries.

I get the definite impression that Tesla are engineering their cars to perform well in the test - their cars seem to consistently underperform the official range estimates in actual real-world testing in a way that others don't.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla cars are not interesting for many customers in EU (except maybe nordic countries), they will go with VW/Audi/BMW or other brands. You can't easily extrapolate the growth from US to EU or other parts of world.

Let's see what happens after the Berlin factory opens up; this will reduce both delivery time and costs (tax/tariff etc), and make it cheaper and easier to ge the Tesla. Also, the car built in Berlin would be better suited to European moods, regarding quality etc...

> Let's see what happens after the Berlin factory opens up

Which most probably won't happen in 2021. Meanwhile, Tesla already dropped to third place in total EVs sold in Germany (a bigger EV market than the US), and place 4 and 5 have nearly the same numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla drops out of the top 5 in 2021.

> this will reduce both delivery time and costs (tax/tariff etc),

There are no tariffs between US and EU for car sales, and tax (vat) will be the same as before.

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