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Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

investor.lyft.com

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Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#251
post #215
post #107

I keep getting downvoted. I’ll keep saying it, we need government investment into self driving. It cannot be done by private sector alone.

What would a government invest in this? Money? Technical expertise? The private sector already has a lot more of both.

Just not true.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/technology-innovation/automated-vehicl...

In 1957, a full size system was successfully demonstrated by RCA Labs and the State of Nebraska on a 400-foot strip of public highway at the intersection of U.S. Route 77 and Nebraska Highway 2, then just outside Lincoln, Nebraska. A series of experimental detector circuits buried in the pavement was paired with a series of lights along the edge of the road. The detector circuits were able to send impulses to guide the car and determine the presence and velocity of any metallic vehicle on its surface. A previous test installation of the system in September 1954 along U.S. Route 73 and U.S. Route 75 in Cass County, Nebraska, was utilized as an experimental traffic counter. It was developed in collaboration with General Motors, who provided two standard car models with equipment consisting of special radio receivers and audible and visual warning devices that were able to simulate automatic steering, acceleration, and brake control.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#252
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying he's confident about each beta iteration, and the FSD beta is currently level two, is not the same as saying Tesla will hit level five by the end of the year.

He is explicitly asked by the person feeding him question why he is confident that they will reach level five this year. He is confirming that he is confident they will reach level five this year. Not confident that they will improve, confident they will reach level five.

He was asked that question, but he didn't say he was confident they would reach level five this year.

He did refer to the current FSD beta, which is a level two system, and expressed confidence in the technical roadmap and progress they are making between each beta iteration. Then he talked about the level of reliability they would need, capabilities of the system, and challenges they have.

I guess, I'm confident based on my understanding of the technical roadmap and the progress that we're making between each beta iteration. Yes. As I'm saying, it's not remarkable at all for the car to completely drive you from one location to another through a series of complex intersections. It's now about just improving the corner case reliability and getting it to 99.9999% reliable with respect to an accident.

Basically, we need to get it to better than human bio factor at least 100% or 200%. And the business happening rapidly because we've got so much training data with all the cars in the field. And the software is improving dramatically. The -- we also write the software for labeling.

And I'll say it's quite challenging. We're moving everything toward video labeling. So all video labeling for video inference and so there are still a few of new met that need to be upgraded to video training inference. And really, as we transition to each net to video, the performances become exceptional.

So this is like a hot thing. The video -- the labeling software that we work for, video labeling, making that better has a huge effect on the efficiency of labeling. And then, of course, the Holy Grail is auto labeling. So we're -- we put a lot of work into having the labeling tool to be more efficient when we used, as well as enabling auto labeling where we can.Dojo is a training supercomputer.

We believe it will be -- we think it may be the best neural net training computer in the world by possibly an order of magnitude. So it is a whole thing in and of itself. And this is offer potentially as a service. So some of the others need neural net training, we're not trying to keep it to ourselves.

So I think there could be a whole line of business in and of itself. And then, of course, for training vast amounts video data and getting the reliability from 100% to 200% better than average human to 2,000% better than average human. So that will be very helpful in that regard.

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/01/27/te...

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#253
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say this?

I believe the only path to self-driving cars is through full-stack integration of hardware and software. Waymo doesn’t fit the bill and is progressing far too slowly, in my opinion. It’s more of a proof of concept than a serious effort. It’s great, but I don’t see a viable path forward for them that doesn’t involve their software and sensors on another manufacturer’s cars. Fine, but Google is allergic to anything not…

I think Waymo is valued 4x Chrysler right now. More likely Waymo acquires a car company.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to Elon's FSD claim? He definitely uses ambiguity to his benefit (eg "soon", "by fall/winter/spring/summer" (in which year?)), but I haven't heard anything about Tesla being L5 by the end of 2021.

If someone says by "fall/winter/spring/summer" and they don't mean the immediate upcoming instance of that season, they are lying. That is not being cleverly ambiguous, it is pure dishonesty.

They could also be wrong.

I think the assumption that it's a specifically lie else really highlights where these ideas are coming from.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is the last company I expect to bring something new to market well. The last time they did that it was the Prius and it was kind of a fluke IMO. Toyota's entire market is convincing people (the bulk of whom will trade in in a few years) that a Camry/4Runner/Sienna is worth substantially more than an Altima/Tahoe/Pacifica based on a bunch of promises about reliability after 150k that the statistical first owner…

I think you're conflating self driving cars with ride-sharing here. Yes, getting rid of human drivers would lower the cost of ride shares and hence increase that market at the expense of having your own car, but the vast majority of current car owners will still have their own cars. Hell, we might even see car ownership increase once you can have your cake and eat it: all the comforts of your own car plus an AI doing…

Ride sharing companies have it pretty good now. I'm not sure why they would even want to get rid of Independant Contractors?

1. They get desperate people to buy specific four door vechicles, and don't even have to worrry maintance costs.

1.5 Driver pays for fuel.

2. They don't pay for insurance.

3. They don't have to pay for liability.

4. They pay a Independant Contractor a percent of sales.

5. Most countries have a burgeoning sector of low skill help whom that are begrudgingly copacetic with being exploited. (This I find this very sad, especially in a country I used to love. For decades there wasen't a lot of takers for shit jobs. Now there's a line.)

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit margin. The driver just isn't an expensive or limiting part of cargo transport. To be clear, the conversation also isn't about autonomous driving for individually-owned cars. Tesla's disasters aside, its about autonomous taxi services.

Are you in the freight industry? Because drivers are exactly what is expensive and limits growth right now. there is a humongous supply of trucking jobs, and they are paying really high rates right now (up to 70-80 cents per mile)

Fuel is still wayyyy bigger than the driver.

Both would be valuable - but a truck that is 30% more fuel efficient is probably going to save more money than one that doesn't need a driver (but still needs people more loading).

There are different estimates everywhere - but I usually see 20-30% of trucking costs are drivers. In other freight industries (cargo ships, trains, etc.) it would obviously be less.

https://www.thetruckersreport.com/infographics/cost-of-truck...

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#257
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have a partnership with Waymo to provide autonomous rides. Ultimately, I think Lyft, Uber and the likes will just become a provider/maintainer of robotaxi rides, while the actual tech will be done by Waymo et al.

Google tells me that Uber takes a 25% cut for human-driven rides. So a rider's fare is 3:1 driver to Uber. If (just to make the math easy) you need to pay a robot a third of what you need to pay a human, I wonder whether the negotiation would come out closer to 1. One part Uber, one part driver (so Uber's cut maintains its value) or 2. Still one part Uber, three parts driver, but the values are all lower and the tota…

3:1 of the gross goes to the driver. Much less after driver expenses like wear and tear, gas and insurance.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#258
10 or 20 years down the line, perhaps we will have semi-autonomous vehicles (full self-driving is a pipe dream, IMV). But I still feel it is a waste of time and resources. A better use of them would be to improve current driving conditions for a driver, such as reducing the amount of human energy required for an average drive, or developing more efficient vehicles for single / two passengers.

There is a large portion of the world that uses cars for daily commutes to office. If we can make that fleet much more efficient than current day, a lot of carbon output would be saved.

Edit:

Also, how about making cars safe and mesh enabled to drive further distances, faster and with less stress, so that cities and infrastructure can expand.

100 years down the line, what will survive is our infrastructure, the ability to move from A to B quickly and easily. Roads, bridges, highways, etc. Just look at the economic benefits of the German Auto Bahn.

Imagine special highways, that connect major cities to spread out urban areas. Highways that are automated, where the cars on the highway know about each other and can drive as a swarm. Collectively, they can achieve much higher speeds. It maybe the time to divert investments to such projects and build autonomous driving from that base.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#259
post #240
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when you load 20 people onto a vehicle, if you don't have a driver you still need a security guard.

Subways the world over do without just fine.

The train system in Sydney, Australia has a guard cabin which it's recommended to ride near at night when there aren't many people about.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#260
The thing is, there probably wasn't anyway anyone could convince lyft not to spend money on this. In 2016 investors were writing big checks that self-driving cars were around the corner based on vague demos.

If anyone said it couldn't be done they'd simply be viewed as not AI enough.

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