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Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

washingtonpost.com

321–330 of 474 posts

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#321

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

> I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun.

It's a symptom of a bigger problem in that U.S.A. schools and companies can terminate for arbitrary reasons.

Such would never hold where I live and most other places where an expulsion from school requires approval from an independent government organization or a court which of course will give the defending party ample opportunity to tell it's own version of events and defend itself.

The U.S.A. seems culturally built upon a mentality that one should fear government, but never citizens, and consequently has developed an idea of “Free speech is only from the government.” whereas in most developed nations, freedom of opinion is a more active right that the government also attempts to safeguard from private citizens and schools.

There is a whitelist of reasons in most developed nations wherefore one may be terminated, not a blacklist wherefore one may not, and “saying controversial things outside of work, not in any way associating oneself with one's empoyer” is usually not one of them.

> If you're saying f the school and f cheerleading and the goal of the cheer squad is to promote school spirit and pride... (she wasn't suspended, given detention, or kicked off the softball team) I know I would have been benched or cut if I talked about throwing a game or not trying my hardest and those statements made it back to the coach. It's not like they were monitoring social media for this.

Luckily I can't be let go for this either.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if I said that, I could see myself being cut for that season (year). I think that could be appropriate depending on the circumstances. To make it similar to this case, it wouldn't just be a friend who heard it, it would be the majority of that school. In which case, I can see that as reasonable. "You can't compare her venting to threats of throwing games or intentionally under-performing." You seem to be missin…

She was 14. It’s unreasonable to expect a 14 yo to always represent an organization. Hell, almost no adults ever do that.

I don't see how being 14 is an excuse. People mature at different rates, but I reasonably believe she knew right from wrong. After all 14 is way past mens rea for much more serious topics.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#323

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

Whether you see an issue with it is orthogonal to the legality/constitutionality of the matter.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#324

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

> There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun.

You may get downvoted for making a preposterous claim with no supporting evidence.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#325
post #293

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

> I know I would have been benched or cut if I talked about throwing a game or not trying my hardest and those statements Do you think you'd get a years suspension as a 14 year old if you'd said "fuck this team" to a friend after losing a match? And do you really think that would have been an appropriate response? You can't compare her venting to threats of throwing games or intentionally under-performing.

To be clear, isn't the suspension from participating in those activities (cheer) not from school itself? The former seems completely appropriate to me. The latter not at all.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#326
post #313
post #127

"Fuck school, fuck softball, fuck cheer, fuck everything." Wait, that's it?!

Every 2nd teenager I know used to make statements like these on a daily basis.

I said roughly the same thing this morning over coffee.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#327

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

Sports or Extra Curricular Activities come with additional responsibilities than simply attending school. When you participate in these activities you become a representative of the school. In a simple example this is why most sports teams ( used to ) wear ties and or slacks on game day. The community and the school views you as an extension of the school's pride and standards. You sign a contract to this affect when…

I can see either as reasonable (the one game suspension or the 1 year). I thought there were other issues she was causing too. Didn't it say she was causing issues in the team dynamic by essentially bullying another teammate, stating (or was it implying) the coach already talked to her about it? It seemed like this was not a first strike.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but as this example demonstrates, a person's political views may stem from his religious views, which are protected.

>Ok, but as this example demonstrates, a person's political views may stem from his religious views, which are protected. Yes, which makes me believe that you are legally protected from being fired for publicly expressing your affiliation with a religious group. However, you are not protected from being fired for expressing political views, regardless of whether they stem from the religion you are affiliated with or…

IANAL either, but the abortion issue is one such, and has been around for decades, and people have been vocal about their opinions, and I don't think they have got fired.

this whole cancel culture I think has taken a turn for the worse in the recent past.

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#329

I don't think schools should get involved in off campus speech or activities. However, we are seeing more and more of it. This case isn't even that extreme compared to others. There are people being suspended from actual school for non-threatening photos with guns or even just liking a photo of a gun. On the other hand, I don't see the problem with cutting a student from an extracurricular for actions that contradict…

Whether you see an issue with it is orthogonal to the legality/constitutionality of the matter.

I don't see an issue with it legally/constitutionally. Case law has been pretty clear that it's not an unrestricted right, this punishment seems logical and thus likely acceptable under common law, and I haven't seen any real support for a theory in which this is not acceptable (besides 1A MFer).

Re: Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme Court case on speech

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports or Extra Curricular Activities come with additional responsibilities than simply attending school. When you participate in these activities you become a representative of the school. In a simple example this is why most sports teams ( used to ) wear ties and or slacks on game day. The community and the school views you as an extension of the school's pride and standards. You sign a contract to this affect when…

I can see either as reasonable (the one game suspension or the 1 year). I thought there were other issues she was causing too. Didn't it say she was causing issues in the team dynamic by essentially bullying another teammate, stating (or was it implying) the coach already talked to her about it? It seemed like this was not a first strike.

Yes you are correct.

Perhaps the accumulation was the basis for the year suspension. In other sports you would be benched for poor behavior. Sports like cheer and dance are hard to bench people due to choreography dependencies.

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