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Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

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Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#221

Post by kelnos »

elliekelly wrote: post #139
saltedonion wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter what the consumer prefers. This battle is about the _ability_ to implement a feature, and that power should reside with the application developer. Monopolists can often have batter products as well as charging monopolistic pricing.

> This battle is about the _ability_ to implement a feature, and that power should reside with the application developer. Which begs the question: who, is _the_ developer? I think the argument can be convincingly made that both Roku and Google are “the” developer. It seems to be the fundamental disagreement underlying every modern accusation of antitrust. Trying to think of analogies for this “dual developer” framewo…

When it comes to the device's global search feature, Roku is the developer, period. Google is only pushing this because they know they have market/end-user leverage, not because it's inherently better for the user. And even if it is, that's for Roku's product managers to decide.

Your airplane engine analogy doesn't really work; Roku doesn't want to modify the YouTube app; this is purely Roku's own global search feature. Yes, it will aggregate results from the YT app, but Roku doesn't want to modify that data source. Further, the Rolls->Boeing/Airbus relationship is more like a vendor->purchaser arrangement, which is nothing like the Roku->Google relationship here.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#222

Post by khc »

015a wrote: post #55
fra wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

> if I have an app open, voice search works within that app This is not how Siri or the Google Assistant works on iOS, Android, or Apple TV.

This is how Google Assistant works on Android TV

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#223

Post by Cd00d »

cptskippy wrote: post #88
smt88 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app) No, it's not. Most YouTube users have a different primary music app. Google is trying to artificially force a marriage of YouTube and YouTube Music because they have utterly failed to do it in the product experience and user base themselves. If I'm watching a random YouTube video and then want to switch to music, I…

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

I am genuinely surprised by this.

I love voice search on Roku. Typing things in with a d-pad and on-screen keyboard is horrendous. I think it's very fast, and I like that it shows me all the ways what I'm searching for is available.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#224

Post by qwertox »

verelo wrote: post #152
cptskippy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

Just make it a setting? This seems stupid to debate, let’s allow users to choose.

Doesn't the setting exist? Isn't the setting the one to use whatever app has been set as the default music app?

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#225

Post by [deleted] »

d1str0 wrote: post #160
cptskippy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a reasonable expectation, not having ever used Apple TV though that isn't mine. Having only ever been on the Roku platform, my perception is that it's localized.

As an apple tv user, it has been trained into me that voice commands are Global unless specifically in the search field (not just the search screen). I fuck this up all the time. What is naturally intuitive to me is to go to an app and anywhere in that app have a voice search specific for that app, as Google is requesting of Roku.

[deleted]

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#226

Post by [deleted] »

d1str0 wrote: post #160
cptskippy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a reasonable expectation, not having ever used Apple TV though that isn't mine. Having only ever been on the Roku platform, my perception is that it's localized.

As an apple tv user, it has been trained into me that voice commands are Global unless specifically in the search field (not just the search screen). I fuck this up all the time. What is naturally intuitive to me is to go to an app and anywhere in that app have a voice search specific for that app, as Google is requesting of Roku.

[deleted]

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#227

Post by kelnos »

slenk wrote: post #161
dangus wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: the Apple TV is easily the best device of its kind on the market and I’m continually confused at why it doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to the most popular option. Every other steaming device I’ve ever tried is riddled with ads, dark patterns, and slow slow SLOW performance. I can understand the aversion to a $200 device just to watch some Internet TV but then I watch people making six figures pretend lik…

Unless you are fully in the Apple ecosystem already, it's not very welcoming. Price being one thing but with how Apple recently demonstrated they can just take away all your movies with no recourse, I will pass

> Unless you are fully in the Apple ecosystem already, it's not very welcoming.

This is an answer to the question I was about to ask. Except for a MacBook Air that I used to run Linux on (but is now gathering dust) and a Mac Mini that I currently run Linux on, I own no Apple devices. I hear great things about the Apple TV, but don't really care to buy into that overall ecosystem to the degree that I assume is necessary to get full use out of the ATV. It's bad enough that Google has its fingerprints on so much of what I have, and I'm actively trying to reduce that, not replace it with another corporate overlord.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#228

Post by [deleted] »

dangus wrote: post #157
cptskippy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

Hot take: the Apple TV is easily the best device of its kind on the market and I’m continually confused at why it doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to the most popular option. Every other steaming device I’ve ever tried is riddled with ads, dark patterns, and slow slow SLOW performance. I can understand the aversion to a $200 device just to watch some Internet TV but then I watch people making six figures pretend lik…

[deleted]

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#229

Post by qwertox »

ryandrake wrote: post #196
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah companies are all pushing their voice control. I'm never going to talk to a computer until it has full sentience.

I just don't get it. All these big companies pouring oceans of money and research into voice control. What makes this the holy grail of computing? What customer has a burning desire to sit there talking to a computer? And after all this research, voice control is still primitive and limited, and its capabilities are impossible for a user to discover. If I want to search my E-mail for a message from a colleague about…

I'd enjoy a voice control which isn't tied to a device, but more like an Alexa+Siri+Google Now "in a stick with a button to initiate listening and a hardware switch to physically turn the mic off".

One that understands "Google, set a timer for 5 minutes" as well as "Siri, remind me to call X tomorrow" and "Alexa, start Y on the TV in the living room"

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#230

Post by Cd00d »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #155
etempleton wrote: post #142

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them. I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purch…

Well, there are also Roku TVs now.

I recently bought a TCL TV with a Roku OS.

I think it's great. It was cheap. I'm a fan of Roku (been with them since 2008 or so).

I'm disappointed to see these tiffs with content companies. Remember the time when every video you wanted to play on your computer required a different software player? Are these companies planning on re-doing all that with hardware?

"Oh, I have a Roku for most things, then plug in Apple TV for Apple+, I use the Fire stick for Prime Video, and the Chromecast allows me to watch YouTube TV! I just needed a TV with 17 HDMI ports!"

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