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Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

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Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#141

Post by bogwog »

Spivak wrote: post #117
inetknght wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a very common practice for streaming services to make crazy demands about the devices they're on That doesn't make it any less anti-competitive

If it was “you must have a Netflix button and no others” I could see the argument but the demand for a particular user experience isn’t anticompetitive automatically. Company with leverage others might not have using that leverage isn’t something we vilify in general.

If you're willfully ignorant of the situation, then sure. Otherwise, using leverage to favor your own product over competitors despite user preference is textbook anti-competitive behavior, almost comically so: Not only does it unfairly disadvantage competitors, but it also robs consumers of choice (by ignoring their preferences).

I would love to see one of the meetings that lead to absurdly unethical and borderline/outright illegal decisions like this; did anyone bother to bring it up? Did the person that brought it up get the silent treatment? Were they no longer invited to lunch? Does everyone just understand that those topics are off limits? Or do these people seriously not care because they know they can get away with it?

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#142

Post by etempleton »

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them.

I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purchased a DSP to get more into the advertising game. However they are at risk of being disrupted. They do not offer much that is unique and have largely gained and held market position by being the cheapest and easiest to use.

Cheap Android TV devices are starting to compete with them on price and tv manufacturers have mostly chosen to create and maintain their own ecosystems.

Unless they make some big strategic maneuvers I see them slowly being squeezed out like Tivo.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#143

Post by Wowfunhappy »

cptskippy wrote: post #88
smt88 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app) No, it's not. Most YouTube users have a different primary music app. Google is trying to artificially force a marriage of YouTube and YouTube Music because they have utterly failed to do it in the product experience and user base themselves. If I'm watching a random YouTube video and then want to switch to music, I…

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

> If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App.

If you're using a fullscreen app on macOS and activate spotlight, do you expect it to only search that app, or do you expect it to behave like Spotlight always behaves and search the entire system?

Put another way, this depends entirely on how the OS and UI is set up.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#145

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

sniperjzp wrote: post #48
aklemm wrote: post #4

I'm just about sick of YouTube and YouTube TV not playing well with whatever device I've decided on. First it was YouTube and the Firestick, now it's YouTube TV and Roku. Frankly, how did Google end up with a good TV service? I'd rather not be relying on Google for TV streaming.

First, you can play YouTube without any problem on Firestick, they made the change 2 years ago. Second, you should give the new Chromecast device a try, it's far much better than Roku. Third, Google is asking Roku to support VP9, which is a much superior video coding format, I don't see any issue with this ask.

No thanks. I'll stick with a computer running a web browser connected to the TV and a wireless keyboard because I'm sick of having to give a shit which devices are supported by which services.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#146

Post by reaperducer »

fra wrote: post #14
s3r3nity wrote: post #2

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with…

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

I understand your position on this. But what I don't understand is what makes Google think it has the right to demand anything from another company.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#147

Post by pythonaut_16 »

Nadya wrote: post #109
pythonaut_16 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Searching is an open query - find the most relevant results. What results are most relevant is subjective, hence why you would give the user a choice for what results to favor. The separation between Youtube and Youtube Music is a technical minutia, they're both Youtube…

>Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Going from watching videos to playing music is a different interaction than doing voice search. >Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Using a global voice commands (not search) has explicit behavior - use whatever app I have set to default for the functionality I am requesting. "Play Stairway to Heaven" s…

You're basically making the argument for why this should be a user preference.

Do I want the current app I'm using to influence the result of a voice command or not.

Unfortunately the line between voice commands and voice search is often fuzzy. Lines like this: > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open make it unclear if it's talking about a search or a command.

Ideally Roku would implement a more fine grained API where a user can set permissions/preferences on an app by app basis, similar to Android and iOS permissions APIs and especially how notifications are handled.

Either way if Roku's allegations definitely don't paint Google in a good light here. It just seems like there could be more to this story.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#148

Post by driverdan »

colordrops wrote: post #112
the_lonely_road wrote: post #105

This kind of tactic works. I have 3 rokus in a box collecting dust and two brand new Fire sticks that replaced them. I didn't want to do this but 85% of my streaming time is spent on Twitch.tv and I wasn't able to use my Roku's to stream it anymore.

Why is Twitch not on Roku?

Because Amazon is equally anti-competitive and wants people to use Fire devices.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#149

Post by brightball »

s3r3nity wrote: post #2

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with…

The more streaming services appear, the more I like my bundled cable plan + Tivo.

Seems like you get a lot of additional headaches after the initial joy of cord cutting wears off.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#150

Post by NationalPark »

etempleton wrote: post #142

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them. I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purch…

And the HBO Smart TV app is still not available natively on LG televisions, which obviously isn't a big deal to people who already have a media system set up but is annoying none the less. All this streaming stuff sure is starting to feel like the cable television plans I grew up with.
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