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CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

newstatesman.com

221–230 of 363 posts

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#221
> Where automated management – or “decision intelligence”, as Google and IBM call it – has been deployed, it’s produced impressive results. Hong Kong’s mass transit system put software in charge of scheduling its maintenance in 2004, and enjoys a reputation as one of the world’s most punctual and best-run metros.

Predictive maintenance != “automating a CEO”

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#222

CEOs aren't paid for the day-to-day value they provide to the company. They're paid for the long-term, strategic value the owners think they might provide the company in comparison to other candidates. So if you think CEO Candidate X will make you a 3x return on your investment, but CEO Candidate Y will make you a 5x return, it's almost certainly worth it to pay him/her the extra $200K to get you there, if that's the…

The performance of a business can be measured by a machine in finite metrics. Things like opportunity cost are a reliable way for machines to make this determination. You give it your business metrics and tell it which ones are variable. Then run the simulation over and over with different levels of risk tolerance, risk appetite, political factors ect and see which ones result in the highest opportunity cost. Then you run the next simulation assuming the previous one is reality and keep extrapolating a beneficial future for the company. 24/7/365.

It is naive to think that every other position within a company could be eliminated except the CEO. Of course it could be, and eventually you can expect that it will be. It's when humans are no longer the shareholders that we all need to be concerned. If we're still alive.

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#223
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he isn't.

I think you might be misunderstanding what "All numbers in thousands" means on that table she linked. EDIT: To be clear, Walmart's revenue in 2020 was 559 Billion with a B[0]. We can see on that table[1] that if we take the values listed in the "Total Revenue" row (559 Million with an M, 523 Million with an M, etc) and multiply them by 1,000 according to the directions ("All numbers in thousands") on the chart that w…

You're looking at the wrong number. See how it says "Operating Expenses" right below "Gross Income"? You're going to need to subtract that, then you're at operating income. Subtract operating income expenses and you're at pre-tax income. Subtract the tax and then you have what you might actually consider "profit". It's less than 10% of your original figure.

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#224
No one has mentioned yet that not all CEOs are large enough to be listed/Fortune 500/etc. Take a look at the state of California - Q1 2020. 0.1% of all business had 1000+ employees: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/LMID/Size_of_Business.... In fact 71.1% of all business presumably with a high level of incorporation, have 0-4 employees. In this case the CEO is also most likely filling all the roles of the C-suite, including lead and janitor.

It's casually flippant to say that all CEOs must be automated out of their jobs without looking at the details and nuance of what the data bear.

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#225

So much "interesting stuff" both in the article and in the comments (my favorite is the guy claiming he knows of multiple startups where the startup CEOs are making 7 figures). I was initially perplexed when I saw this article doing well on the HN homepage, but I assumed that it's just some kind of an engagement metric that the HN algorithm is picking up on. Really disheartened to see that the article itself and so m…

> Most of us here on HN are hunting for disruptable opportunities so that we can either build startups or at least inform other people who will hopefully go after them.

Maybe that was the case several years ago, but I believe most people on HN are regular salaried employees without any particular startup ambitions.

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are resources allocated in this utopia?

My personal guess is - assuming that democracy is in tact, redistribution will be voted in with landslide support. In a hypothetical future where almost nobody can compete with an AGI and 90% of voters find themselves completely useless in the economy, the proportion of voters who are against redistribution will drop precipitously.

Then what?

Everyone is allocated the same by the state? A society where no-one has any function to society and where the state allocates resources to individuals sounds more dystopian than utopian to me...

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#227
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a Danish study that showed that a death in the family of a Danish CEO led, on average, to a 9 percent decline in the profitability of the corporation. If it was the death of a spouse, the decline was 15 percent and, if it was a child who died, 21 percent. From the study: “Interestingly, similar deaths experienced by individual members of the board of directors do not significantly affect firms’ outcomes. Ou…

To be honest, this shows that a dysfunctional CEO (for completely understandable reasons) leads to a nonprofitable firm, not that value is added. You could say that people with no or defective keyboard have a hard time programming, but the best keyboard does not add significant value to a developer.

Isn't the assumption here that if they didn't provide any value then a death in their family shouldn't affect the company?

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You need profits for stock buybacks. You merely need capital. Lots of buybacks are funded by debt

This is pretty insane actually. Is there a common metric that captures which companies are funding buybacks with debt? or is it easy to figure out? I am not a finance person.

With interest rates as low as they are (on both government backed and corporate investment grade bonds) and a reasonable forecast of higher inflation ahead, why shouldn't companies borrow for a variety of corporate activities, both operational and treasury?

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#229
The subfield of AI for handling decisions which are context dependent and which yield rewards (or minimize costs) is reinforcement learning. Even a shallow familiarity with this family of techniques raises a number of reasons why automating a CEO is deeply challenging:

1. Specifying the problem to be solved can be very subtle. The article throws in an example of scheduling maintenance in a transit system. That's a case where someone can specify some utility function around service disruptions, cost, etc. Companies are complex.

2. The space of actions available to a company at any point is extremely broad, and also hard to specify.

3a. An agent needs to learn from something. This can take a couple directions. Roughly, "off-policy learning" learns from the actions and outcomes of _another_ agent with different internal rules etc. Perhaps we have incomplete data of this sort (business school case studies etc leave much information out). But you need a _lot_ of data, and it needs to cover the same sorts of situations that your agent would get around to. And some actions probably the software agent _cannot_ copy (e.g. doing an interview on Sunday news program).

3b. "On-policy" learning is improving your agent from the past actions/outcomes of its own decision-making. Normally this means we need some simulation environment in which to let the agent learn. How do you simulate the whole economy, and market forces with which a company interacts? After learning in a simulated environment, you likely need to further improve (and test) in the real world. In this domain, I think that means you have to be prepared to let a computer program run many companies into the ground.

4. Without a decent model of the world around them, RL agents have a harder time attributing outcomes to specific past actions. You beat your earnings estimate, but which of the bajillions of decisions made over the past several quarters is most responsible for that? I think human CEOs actually do a questionable job of this, but an automated one would be worse.

Re: CEOs are hugely expensive – why not automate them?

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You need profits for stock buybacks. You merely need capital. Lots of buybacks are funded by debt

This is pretty insane actually. Is there a common metric that captures which companies are funding buybacks with debt? or is it easy to figure out? I am not a finance person.

No. But it's generally common knowledge. Here are some articles

https://fortune.com/2019/08/20/stock-buybacks-debt-financed/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/29/buybacks-companies-increasin...

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11393

From the last one: "Data on the percentage of buybacks that are leveraged are inconsistent. For example, the bank J.P. Morgan Chase reported that leveraged buybacks accounted for 14% of overall buybacks during 2018, which it said was the lowest percentage since 2009. But Yardeni Research, a respected securities market research firm, reported that they were 56% of the total."

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