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‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#311

Post by [deleted] »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #234
jacobolus wrote: post #70

> "[in 2000] Shi agreed and ended up settling in the small city of Wuxi" A bit of a tangent, but it’s always strange to me when people describe Chinese or Indian cities with millions of residents as "small". Wuxi had >1 million people in 2000, and today has like 3.5 million (6.5 million in the prefecture). This article makes it sound like a minor town in a remote province, but Jiangsu has about the same population as…

I used to have a Chinese colleague who when asked where he came from would answer that he was from "A small town, you wouldn't know it. Only 3M people". He was right; I had never heard of it. I guess in China, which has multiple mega cities, that is indeed a bit unremarkable. It's all relative.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#312

Post by hispanic »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #77

Is there a way to invest directly in solar to offset your personal use, without installing it directly on your house/land? My existing house isn’t particularly suitable from a cost perspective to install solar on (clay tile roof, a good 20 years left at least). I also don’t really want to manage an installation project, nor own the maintenance and risk. But I would pay to directly offset my consumption. Something lik…

I subscribe to a community solar installation in lieu of installing panels on my shaded roof. The local (to Maryland) company I use is Neighborhood Sun - https://neighborhoodsun.solar/

I've been very pleased.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#313

Post by sgerenser »

ivanhoe wrote: post #294
Tade0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Crystalline silicon solar cells, the most popular type today, require no rare earths. The most expensive and rare element in them is silver - used for the reflective layer underneath.

yes, if you don't count in the inverter and charger controller units and the batteries used as part of a common setup... I've got a degree in electrical engineering, but as I've said, I really don't feel competent enough to go into any discussion on a degree of actual threat, if any, as looking into all the side-effects of some tech is really complex task far above my pay grade and it's super easy to overlook somethi…

Batteries are very rare as part of most residential solar installs. Inverters and charge controllers are pretty basic devices, they contain a bunch of high current semiconductors and heat sinks and fans, nothing that I’m aware of that’s particularly hazardous or unusual.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#314

Post by sgerenser »

gwicks56 wrote: post #120
koolba wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are we at in 2021 for pay off period? Does it vary by region?

In Australia, after a $2500 .gov subsidy, mine will pay for themselves in 4.5 years. LG Panels with 25 Year output guarantee. 6.6kw System. Financially speaking it's a complete no brainer. One thing I did notice when I was living in the USA though, was how expensive it was over there compared to Australia. Installation costs are 3x the price, I have no idea why. My system before the subsidy was $11k, and that was for…

In the U.S. it varies by region, but mid-quality panels are usually quoted at $2.50 to $3.00 per watt installed (before subsidies). Tesla Solar is advertising $2.00/watt nationwide but there are some questions about their responsiveness in actually getting anything installed in a timely manner. Outside of CA most people are only paying $0.10-$0.13/KWh making payback rough unless you have a large state or local subsidy on top of the federal 26% tax credit.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#315

Post by nharada »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #52

Meanwhile the largest California utilities are rolling back incentives for solar[1]. Why? Because they're effectively paying people to take electricity during the peak hours of the duck curve. Texas has the same issue during peak periods of wind power. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-03-16/california...

I don't really understand this. I just looked into moving onto EV rates for PG&E and the super cheap "off peak" hours start at midnight and run through the night. If solar is causing issues with overcapacity during the day why are they charging me peak rates starting at 3pm?

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#316

Post by xyzzy21 »

puranjay wrote: post #71
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat. Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is…

If and only if you own the land (or enough land) to put solar collection on!!

That's NOT MOST PEOPLE. And not that many "average people".

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#317

Post by wizzwizz4 »

lostlogin wrote: post #57
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you push for free markets, Big Oil isn't going to be the first to yield. If we can't get rid of CO₂ subsidies, solar subsidies are necessary.

Isn’t the damage to climate and health arguably a subsidy to big oil? While they get that damage for free, of course they win.

Actually, they wouldn't win; many renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels nowadays. Though this is a good point; we need to factor “stealing from the future” and other externalities into the price somehow, if we are to use a capitalist market. (Hence carbon taxes, rather than carbon subsidies, should be government policy.)

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#318

Post by slyall »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #240
bostik wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plural of anecdote is not data, but I can provide some figures. There is currently a push in London to get households install solar panels, and I expressed interest in getting a set installed to our house. Sadly, the finances don't add up. Our house is not exactly small, and optimistically you could fit 10 PV panels on the roof. At least according to the quote I received, but having scouted installations in the n…

I too looked into this a few years ago and was quoted 11 years to get my money back... Which didn't make financial sense at the time. Perhaps if it was more like 4 years I might consider it. The UK has a lot of cloud cover so I do wonder if we should stick with wind power which is doing really well with the off shore installations. Plus nuclear... For the rare times the wind doesn't blow.

11 years payback is pretty good when you are lucky to get 1% interest on savings at your local bank.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#319

Post by ed25519FUUU »

nharada wrote: post #315
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #52

Meanwhile the largest California utilities are rolling back incentives for solar[1]. Why? Because they're effectively paying people to take electricity during the peak hours of the duck curve. Texas has the same issue during peak periods of wind power. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-03-16/california...

I don't really understand this. I just looked into moving onto EV rates for PG&E and the super cheap "off peak" hours start at midnight and run through the night. If solar is causing issues with overcapacity during the day why are they charging me peak rates starting at 3pm?

PG&E will tell you that those plans are based on demand, not on capacity.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#320

Post by Gibbon1 »

pfdietz wrote: post #308
Gibbon1 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing to is the massive redundancy with solar. Friend mine worked on installing a giant GE Gas Turbine for a power plant. They fired it up and it threw its blades. And it was down for 9 months. Doesn't really happen with solar.

This means PV can be installed with some level of sloppiness and inattention to detail that would be ruinous on a large integrated power plant, like a nuclear power plant. I bet this also reduces labor costs by reducing the level of training and expertise required.

My half joke is most of the maintenance work for a solar power plant can be done by two guys in an F150 pickup truck.
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