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In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

theguardian.com

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Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#11

Post by tartoran »

libertine wrote: post #9
djbebs wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in portugal is purely a political and regulatory one. On a 200k€ house you're paying roughly 50k€ on top for taxes and fees alone.

I disagree, specially if you're looking at what you can get for 200k€.

> I disagree, specially if you're looking at what you can get for 200k€.

Is it better or worse than in the UK? I know some folks who moved to Portugal to retire and they bought an amazing large house for 150k euros about 5 years ago. It wasn’t in Lisbon but Albufeira and that location works out for their age group. I think their property appreciated quite a bit since then and overall they are much much happier than they were in New York.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#12

Post by LatteLazy »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #10
LatteLazy wrote: post #2

Only 50 years ago the UK was to the left of Europe politically and joining was seen as a way to lock in right win ideas like free markets. Now we are quite far to the right of them.

Well at least Corbyn got his life long dream of getting out of EU. He was pushing the idea for what, 20 years?

Yeah, I'm just not sure post brexit Britian will be the socialist people republic he expected...

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#14

Post by domano »

samsquire wrote: post #3

House prices in the UK are ridiculous. The average house price outside of London is £245,128 [1] If I were to guess it's closer to £250k now. Rent is expensive too. Our economy is a service based on economy but I don't see where all the good jobs are. They're in London. Not distributed across the UK. I think people are getting poorer too. Wage inflation is non-existent. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house…

Wow Germany is much more expensive then. And i am looking at prices near my mid-sized town, not berlin or munich or anything. Would love to get a house for that price. In that price range i would be looking at a flat for 2 people, not a house.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#15

Post by libertine »

tartoran wrote: post #11
libertine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, specially if you're looking at what you can get for 200k€.

> I disagree, specially if you're looking at what you can get for 200k€. Is it better or worse than in the UK? I know some folks who moved to Portugal to retire and they bought an amazing large house for 150k euros about 5 years ago. It wasn’t in Lisbon but Albufeira and that location works out for their age group. I think their property appreciated quite a bit since then and overall they are much much happier than t…

I think in the end it's worse for the simple fact that our income is way lower than the ones in the UK. Like, maybe the avg middle class family in the UK can easily buy a house in Portugal bellow the market value of the UK, while the avg portuguese middle class family can't do that in Portugal, let alone the buying an house in the UK lol.

This is one of those things the fuel the extremes in politics - a lot of people that I know are starting to become outraged that we can't afford houses in our own country.

It's like our solution is to start to look for house in the north of Africa (it's a bad and sad joke), or to go to other EU country (or the UK), work there for a decade +, and return to buy an house in Portugal.

If nothing is done, and a lot of people keep parking money in Portugal housing market (some as imigrants, like your friends or others from UK/richer European countries, or people just buying golden visas through realstate to get a EU passports), then I'm afraid nothing good will come out of this.

A lot of people thought it was the migrant crisis that might start the fire for the for extreme-right in Portugal, I think the end will be hyper inflation and the housing market - all because people just want to live in dignity where they were born, and they're being squeezed out.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#16

Post by Cypher »

samsquire wrote: post #3

House prices in the UK are ridiculous. The average house price outside of London is £245,128 [1] If I were to guess it's closer to £250k now. Rent is expensive too. Our economy is a service based on economy but I don't see where all the good jobs are. They're in London. Not distributed across the UK. I think people are getting poorer too. Wage inflation is non-existent. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house…

The NHS nurses got +1% payrise for their efforts mean while m2 money supply is 50% than 2016 crazy times

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#17

Post by gigabuddha »

domano wrote: post #14
samsquire wrote: post #3

House prices in the UK are ridiculous. The average house price outside of London is £245,128 [1] If I were to guess it's closer to £250k now. Rent is expensive too. Our economy is a service based on economy but I don't see where all the good jobs are. They're in London. Not distributed across the UK. I think people are getting poorer too. Wage inflation is non-existent. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house…

Wow Germany is much more expensive then. And i am looking at prices near my mid-sized town, not berlin or munich or anything. Would love to get a house for that price. In that price range i would be looking at a flat for 2 people, not a house.

Don't forget UK includes the sparsely populated Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. The average house price near a mid-sized town in England would be more.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#18

Post by algo_trader »

libertine wrote: post #15
tartoran wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree, specially if you're looking at what you can get for 200k€. Is it better or worse than in the UK? I know some folks who moved to Portugal to retire and they bought an amazing large house for 150k euros about 5 years ago. It wasn’t in Lisbon but Albufeira and that location works out for their age group. I think their property appreciated quite a bit since then and overall they are much much happier than t…

I think in the end it's worse for the simple fact that our income is way lower than the ones in the UK. Like, maybe the avg middle class family in the UK can easily buy a house in Portugal bellow the market value of the UK, while the avg portuguese middle class family can't do that in Portugal, let alone the buying an house in the UK lol. This is one of those things the fuel the extremes in politics - a lot of people…

Is there more housing being built ?

I am sure it has its own NIMBY, especially in the capital, but why isnt more being built outside the premium zones?

Portugal has a greying and falling (!) population [1]. Total fertility rate has been below replacement for 40 years (amazing ! Could that be true?). And the population density is well below the UK, and much lower than England it self.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Portugal

Also, the working age population seems to have peaked, meaning wages should start to rise. Good luck to u and your friends.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#19

Post by xnyan »

domano wrote: post #14
samsquire wrote: post #3

House prices in the UK are ridiculous. The average house price outside of London is £245,128 [1] If I were to guess it's closer to £250k now. Rent is expensive too. Our economy is a service based on economy but I don't see where all the good jobs are. They're in London. Not distributed across the UK. I think people are getting poorer too. Wage inflation is non-existent. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house…

Wow Germany is much more expensive then. And i am looking at prices near my mid-sized town, not berlin or munich or anything. Would love to get a house for that price. In that price range i would be looking at a flat for 2 people, not a house.

For various reasons, Germans have taken a different approach to housing vs the US and most of Europe. Home ownership is in the mid 40% range, vs 65%+ for the UK and US.

Housing there is seen more as a cost than as an investment, with most people renting and the building itself generally owned entities like pension funds.

Re: In Britain, the rich are richer but the poor far poorer than in Europe

#20

Post by libertine »

algo_trader wrote: post #18
libertine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the end it's worse for the simple fact that our income is way lower than the ones in the UK. Like, maybe the avg middle class family in the UK can easily buy a house in Portugal bellow the market value of the UK, while the avg portuguese middle class family can't do that in Portugal, let alone the buying an house in the UK lol. This is one of those things the fuel the extremes in politics - a lot of people…

Is there more housing being built ? I am sure it has its own NIMBY, especially in the capital, but why isnt more being built outside the premium zones? Portugal has a greying and falling (!) population [1]. Total fertility rate has been below replacement for 40 years (amazing ! Could that be true?). And the population density is well below the UK, and much lower than England it self. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

>Is there more housing being built ?

The bulk is probably recovery of old buildings, but even land slots for construction are becoming unaffordable.

It's common to see listing prices for the same land slot/buildings increase - like when people realize there's a lot of bids for their property they pull the house and relist for 10-20% more.

Our governments made sure to grow specific sectors of their interest and left the rest of the country in the shit, so now we're going to be the tip of the tail for the EU.

People live with their parents until their 30's because they can't afford to pay rents, so it's impossible to have kids or you just dig a bigger hole.

>Also, the working age population seems to have peaked, meaning wages should start to rise. Good luck to u and your friends.

I'm not that positive mate, but thank you, we're going to need it.

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