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‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#91

Post by wrycoder »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #76
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that store energy for the grid?

Reduces grid demand by localizing the energy, storing it on site thermally. Air conditioners that make ice at night and cool during the day do the same.

Freeman Dyson devised an a/c system at Princeton that involved using snow making machines to generate a large pile of ice in an insulated shed during the winter (with the doors open) and circulated coolant through the ice pile and the buildings in the summer (with the shed doors closed).

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#92

Post by joe_the_user »

yegle wrote: post #86

As a California resident I don't see the cheaper generation cost gets reflected on my utility bill, so what's the point to the consumer? Not to mention the delivery cost is another major part of the bill which is not changed regardless of the source of the electricity.

Do you have solar on your house?

My mother and stepfather installed solar ten years ago and basically paid zero utility bills from then with utility connected solar (they said they paid $50/year to PGE). I think the equation is the same now except the cost of such a system is less.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#93

Post by Retric »

mulmboy wrote: post #82
Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak solar production is in the summer. Peak electricity demand is driven by AC, primarily when it’s hot... in the summer.

Peak solar production during the middlish periods of the day in summer. Peak demand (if your grid is summer peaking - some peak in winter) is likely in the afternoon when people get home, right as solar output starts to taper off. It all varies a bit by culture and climate, but I think this is largely true.

You can easily offset that changing the angle the panels are installed at. People think in terms of maximum total output but tracking solar show significant power is available late in the day.

As solar keeps getting cheaper the question shifts further from how do I get maximum power to how do I maximize my investment. Which is a slightly different and far more complex optimization problem.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#95

Post by mjevans »

edoceo wrote: post #79
Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak solar production is in the summer. Peak electricity demand is driven by AC, primarily when it’s hot... in the summer.

cascadia summers hardly need AC too, it rarely gets over 35c

At least by the sounds and oceans it's a rather humid heat.

AC sure is a quality of life if not a necessity of life... Though if our homes were built for this climate rather than by Californian companies using shoddily adapted designs it might be another story.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#96

Post by conradev »

puranjay wrote: post #71
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat. Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is…

My favorite part of PV is that you can scale it to fit any power generating capacity, from a residential roof all the way up to a 50MW farm. It’s fairly linear, too, in terms of land usage and cost, which makes it easy to understand.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#97

Post by ineedasername »

greenearth1 wrote: post #10

This is why pushing for free markets is the most effective solution for combating fossil fuel dependencies.

The development of solar has been heavily subsidized by governments, so there isn't really a free marker success story here. If anything it's a story of how well long term interests, tethered to Nation-state level wealth via taxation, can work hand in hand with market forces.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#98

Post by NickNameNick »

yegle wrote: post #86

As a California resident I don't see the cheaper generation cost gets reflected on my utility bill, so what's the point to the consumer? Not to mention the delivery cost is another major part of the bill which is not changed regardless of the source of the electricity.

Distributed generation lowers demand for transmission capacity, so it could reduce delivery costs.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#99

Post by bob29 »

mulmboy wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These fallacies against net metering have been disproven. See the linked citation for details. “Nevertheless, by the end of 2015, regulators in at least 10 states had conducted studies to develop methodologies to value distributed generation and net metering, while other states conducted less formal inquiries, ranging from direct rate design or net-metering policy changes to general education of decisionmakers and th…

The post didn't describe net metering edit: actually I think it did :) ignore me

Why isn't it net metering? It seems to be net metering whether you count in kilowatt hours or dollars.

They are selling back to the grid, with a smart meter that counts power in both direction. Theres many types of policies in net metering like details about what rate you buy and sell power to the utility. In some less favorable places, the grid sells you power at retail prices but buys it back from you at wholesale. In these places, to achieve a $0 utility bill you would be generating more during the day than you consume at night. If your net metering deal paid back at retail rates you may get a credit, but as far as i understand each utility can offer totally different net metering deals, if they offer it at all.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#100

Post by spenrose »

The article cites a learning rate (depreciation per doubling of capacity) of 28%. That's true over decades, but: "the learning rate estimated with data from 2007 onward is even higher at 40%." https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(21)00100-8

Yes solar is insanely cheap today, but it will be much cheaper in a few years. And capacity factors are 30%+ for single-axis trackers in sunny places: https://emp.lbl.gov/pv-capacity-factors

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