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‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#81

Post by wrycoder »

hh3k0 wrote: post #29
edhelas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, thousands of km of high power copper cables. Crossing west-to-east Europe with electricity is already loosing 30% of it. Let's transport electricity from Australia to India ! And for wind, it's the same issue, when there is wind in Finland, there is wind in Spain. So you can't "balance thing" between countries.

> Crossing west-to-east Europe with electricity is already loosing 30% of it. Let's transport electricity from Australia to India ! From the DESERTEC website: > For long transmission distances direct current transmission is superior to alternating current. Alternating current has high losses due to capacitive and inductive resistance, which do not occur in direct current transmission. With that technology, a 3000 km…

That would be high reactive losses due to unbalanced inductive and capacitive reactance in an ac load.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#82

Post by mulmboy »

Spooky23 wrote: post #50
makomk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're crediting you for that energy at anything close to the retail electricity rate you're effectively getting a really generous subsidy. Because solar is so cheap but only produces electricity sometimes and at pretty much the same time everywhere in the region, the actual cost of electricity when your solar panels are producing heavily and feeding back into the grid is much, much lower than when they're not pr…

Peak solar production is in the summer. Peak electricity demand is driven by AC, primarily when it’s hot... in the summer.

Peak solar production during the middlish periods of the day in summer. Peak demand (if your grid is summer peaking - some peak in winter) is likely in the afternoon when people get home, right as solar output starts to taper off. It all varies a bit by culture and climate, but I think this is largely true.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#83

Post by ineedasername »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

Is the cost reduction empirical observation, or determined by estimates regarding economies of scale

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#84

Post by itsoktocry »

zaroth wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

Fusion power you can install on your roof. Throw in a little storage and a decent climate and the power companies are on track to be thoroughly screwed.

>power companies are on track to be thoroughly screwed.

I have a hard time making sense of this. I log into HN and see comment after comment about how solar is taking over, then I read articles like this[0], that state that countries heavily invested in renewables, like wind a solar, are going backwards. They are now trying to label natural gas as "green investment" in Germany, otherwise they won't have energy capacity. They have to build more fossil fuel plants.

Do you really think "power companies" are "screwed"?

[0]https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/eu-indecision-over-gas-...

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#85

Post by philipkglass »

epistasis wrote: post #43
edhelas wrote: post #9

All this energy ! Can't be stored (don't tell me about lithium, please do the math…), and it's not there at night.

How do you know how much lithium there is? Every year we discover more accessible lithium than the year before. Do the history!

This is correct.

Here is the USGS mineral commodity summary for lithium in 2010: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prd-wret/assets/palladium...

Here is the same report for 2021: https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2021/mcs2021-lithium.pd...

World lithium reserves went up from 9.9 million tons in 2010 to 21 million tons in 2021 even as extraction accelerated. Companies have been putting more effort into discovery which has increased known reserves much faster than increasing extraction is drawing them down.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#86

Post by yegle »

As a California resident I don't see the cheaper generation cost gets reflected on my utility bill, so what's the point to the consumer?

Not to mention the delivery cost is another major part of the bill which is not changed regardless of the source of the electricity.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#87

Post by baumy »

edoceo wrote: post #79
Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak solar production is in the summer. Peak electricity demand is driven by AC, primarily when it’s hot... in the summer.

cascadia summers hardly need AC too, it rarely gets over 35c

35 Celsius = 95 Fahrenheit for my fellow yanks. That seems like a pretty extreme line to draw for "when do I need AC".

I don't know about you, but the indoor temperature above which I start wanting AC is around 72-75F, or ~23C. Lots of the PNW gets over that for much of the summer. It didn't used to be this way, but I've wanted AC in Seattle for at least a few weeks a year, sometimes as much as 6 - 8 weeks, since 2013 or 2014. Particularly because the insulation in a lot of apartment buildings meant to make them more efficient in winter causes them to heat up like a furnace in a hot summer.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#88

Post by ineedasername »

gok wrote: post #3
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

$0.01 per kilowatt hour

Sure, they'll get you in with the promotion prices, but as soon as fossil fuel plants get decommissioned you be sure the Sun is going to increase sunshine prices and jack up the $/kwh

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#89

Post by alexktz »

koolba wrote: post #78
puranjay wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat. Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is…

Where are we at in 2021 for pay off period? Does it vary by region?

I'm getting 8kw installed on my roof next month and the pay off is somewhere between 10-12 years. That's with NC's electricity costs being cheap at ~11c per kWh - in other areas this will drastically change.
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