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‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#71

Post by puranjay »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat.

Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is always about where to get it.

There is never any skepticism about the technology, the safety, the long term impact (as you would have if someone was setting up a nuclear or gas power plant). They simply “get it”

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#72

Post by sp332 »

hh3k0 wrote: post #62
greenearth1 wrote: post #10

This is why pushing for free markets is the most effective solution for combating fossil fuel dependencies.

Pushing for free markets? Capitalism and free markets got us into the whole mess in the first place.

Subsidizing fossil fuels and fraud from Exxon got us where we are now. Although I would recommend subsidizing renewable sources instead of going full free market - just pointing out we never really had that.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#73

Post by vostok »

irrational wrote: post #21
zaroth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion power you can install on your roof. Throw in a little storage and a decent climate and the power companies are on track to be thoroughly screwed.

You don't even need a decent climate. I live in Portland Oregon where it is cloudy for 9 months out of the year. In Portland, anything we generate beyond what we can use is fed back into the grid and given to us as a credit. We generate enough solar power credits that we don't pay anything for electricity year round other than a $12 monthly fee to be tied into the grid.

What is the ratio of solar panel area to floor area for your home?

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#74

Post by graton »

irrational wrote: post #21
zaroth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion power you can install on your roof. Throw in a little storage and a decent climate and the power companies are on track to be thoroughly screwed.

You don't even need a decent climate. I live in Portland Oregon where it is cloudy for 9 months out of the year. In Portland, anything we generate beyond what we can use is fed back into the grid and given to us as a credit. We generate enough solar power credits that we don't pay anything for electricity year round other than a $12 monthly fee to be tied into the grid.

What is your expected payback time on the investment of solar? It seems like in Oregon it will take a long time with the amount of sunlight and the relatively cheap energy costs.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#75

Post by vostok »

throwawayboise wrote: post #56
pridkett wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not as far off as you might think - even for individual homeowners. I’ve got a far from ideal house with a 8.4KWh solar array on my roof and 3x Tesla Powerwalls in my basement. Yesterday I produced 43KWh of electricity and exported 27KWh to the grid. The only reason I’ve needed grid connectivity in the last nine days has been to export power. In essence, I’m largely off grid from March through October. Now, this…

$22,000 would pay my electric bills for about 12 years, not even factoring in opportunity cost. What are the ongoing maintenance costs/total cost of ownership over 12 years of such a system? As far as Powerwalls go, I'd definitely want something like that in an outbuilding and not in my house. Last thing I want to do is wake up at 3:00am with a raging battery fire in my basement.

If we're talking about nerds buying this stuff, $22k is comparable to what people spend on nice homelab setups. I would pay $22k just because it's cool and not because it saves money.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#76

Post by toomuchtodo »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #51
sunstone wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat the swimming pool during the day and then use the heat pump at night.

How does that store energy for the grid?

Reduces grid demand by localizing the energy, storing it on site thermally. Air conditioners that make ice at night and cool during the day do the same.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#77

Post by anonuser123456 »

Is there a way to invest directly in solar to offset your personal use, without installing it directly on your house/land?

My existing house isn’t particularly suitable from a cost perspective to install solar on (clay tile roof, a good 20 years left at least). I also don’t really want to manage an installation project, nor own the maintenance and risk. But I would pay to directly offset my consumption.

Something like a solar mutual fund where you buy in, they expand capacity using your purchase price by funding commercial solar installations.

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#78

Post by koolba »

puranjay wrote: post #71
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant quote: "Every time you double producing capacity, you reduce the cost of PV solar by 28%." Current worldwide PV manufacturing capacity is roughly 165 GW [1] [2], with a utility scale price close to $0.01/kWh [3]. Manufacturing capacity is doubling every ~4 years. Global PV capacity in service is ~600 GW. IEA Average global annual capacity additions in main and accelerated cases, 2023-2025: https://www.iea.or…

I think researchers underestimated how much solar simply “makes sense” to the average person. Once the price is reasonable enough, people are very easily able to latch onto the idea of using what they already know and feel - the sun’s heat. Whenever I mention the solar panels in my parents house, the first question is always about the price. When I tell them they will break even in a few years, their next question is…

Where are we at in 2021 for pay off period? Does it vary by region?

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#79

Post by edoceo »

Spooky23 wrote: post #50
makomk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're crediting you for that energy at anything close to the retail electricity rate you're effectively getting a really generous subsidy. Because solar is so cheap but only produces electricity sometimes and at pretty much the same time everywhere in the region, the actual cost of electricity when your solar panels are producing heavily and feeding back into the grid is much, much lower than when they're not pr…

Peak solar production is in the summer. Peak electricity demand is driven by AC, primarily when it’s hot... in the summer.

cascadia summers hardly need AC too, it rarely gets over 35c

Re: ‘Insanely cheap energy’: solar power continues to shock the world

#80

Post by mkingston »

edhelas wrote: post #19
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still means power for air conditioning is ~free during the day when it's most needed, and you could pre-cool or pre-heat a bulk block with high heat capacity, then slowly use the heat/cold during the day. You can charge the electric cars when there's an excess, so in particular all the extra load from electric car charging that some people were so worried about is no longer a concern. If it gets cheap enough, you…

I think that you don't see how much land you actually need. Maybe in America there is plenty of space, but in Europe it's way more difficult. To replace one nuclear reactor, you need ~ half of Paris in solar panel. And still need energy "at night". Yes heating water, or cooling places are nice. But your trains ain't gonna work "only when there is sun". If you need backup at one moment, you need 0C0² backup and basica…

Half of Paris city or half of Paris metropolitan area? Where the former is inconsequential on the scale of France, and the latter is merely small.
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