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The Girl in the Kent State Photo

washingtonpost.com

71–80 of 89 posts

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To play the other half of this argument: America engaged in slavery, but also fought its bloodiest war to end it It was only “its bloodiest war” because a sizable fraction of the country was fighting to protect slavery . Much of the rest of the world that had chattel slavery ended it without similarly bloody wars—and generally sooner. The fierce defense of chattel slavery in the US that produced its bloodiest war i…

It would have been bloodless had the Union just said "okay let's have slavery." But they didn't do that. They laid down their lives instead. Like I said before, picking out only the things we dislike and overlooking positives isn't productive or honest to ourselves.

The Republicans were only trying to avoid expansion of slavery, not elimination of it. They fought to maintain the Union, not abolition.

Only later did they free the slaves, and as an act of war more than freedom.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#72
post #26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think things like that are more a result of how information gets disseminated, and how it's framed, than bloodthirst. I'm sure if you took the people that hung that banner and made them hold hand with one of the students as they died, their enthusiasm would quickly fade. The word 'death' is just an abstraction that feels small when you're young, healthy, and haven't had to watch it happen. It's only easy to look at…

I applaud your optimism and boundless faith in humanity. But as a POC, I point out that America has a long tradition of taking children to witness lynchings, and the children would cheer. Or to beat foxes to death with sticks. I don't think it’s as simple as “people don’t have emppathy when death is abstract and indirect.” Lots of people don’t have empathy when they’re socially conditioned to believe a certain type o…

I myself am not a Trump supporter (I’m a libertarian) but my wife’s family are all Vietnamese and they are diehard Trump / Republicans. I feel like the media is ignoring a huge story which is minorities who despise democrats. The family is extensive and some are quite poor, but every single one of them (no joke) completely hate democrats and left wing politics. One issue that keeps coming up is how universities discriminate against Asians, as well as various religious issues.

Some people reading this might think I am exaggerating, but if you hear my father in law rant about democrats you would be shocked.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#73
post #59
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruelty is a human trait that is not bound by nationality, race, nor religion. I get the desire to slice up the pie of humanity and point to the piece called America; it gives us hope that maybe the problem can be solved. No human cruelty will never go away. It may wax and wane, but it will always be in our nature.

Cruelty may not be bound by time and space, but historically, cruelty has been “unevenly distributed.” If we were sitting side-by-side in the Warsaw Ghetto, I might agree with you intellectually, but nevertheless my immediate concern would be for the localized cruelty. I very much disagree that pointing out a particularly virulent strain of cruelty is motivated by the desire to hope that the problem can be solved per…

building abstractions is a way to diffuse responsibility. attributing it to fate or some vague natural law is a way to absolve of personal responsibility. no one that isn't turning q blind eye to the problem would claim anything of the sort. and if you're turning a blind eye then you're at least morally (if not materially as well) culpable.

so you're right and I hope you don't let the wilfully ignorant discourage you.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#74
post #47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all Christian sects (nor individual Christians) are textual literalists. (Probably most aren't, with respect to arbitrary single verses. There's a lot of random crap in there. E.g., https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_ch... )

I didn't say they were. I just said that Jesus was pretty clear about this.

> I just said that Jesus was pretty clear about this.

Not unless you feel "damned" in that sentence is adequately defined, and as the earlier link to the Wiki article on the many different Christian theologies about Hell shows... it's NOT adequately defined.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#75

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

There is no doubt that a similar reaction would occur today from the left if it was a Trump rally. Why? Trump supporters are nazis, etc, etc. They are dehumanized. It’s easy to be outraged when it’s a cause you support, but the true test is when it’s someone for a cause you don’t support.

Are there any other imaginary situations you've dreamt up that you think are applicable to this thread?

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#76

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

It's meant to convince you that how you feel is in minority. Those in power are working hard to control the narrative.

"Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." — Geo. Orwell, 1984

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#77
post #72
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud your optimism and boundless faith in humanity. But as a POC, I point out that America has a long tradition of taking children to witness lynchings, and the children would cheer. Or to beat foxes to death with sticks. I don't think it’s as simple as “people don’t have emppathy when death is abstract and indirect.” Lots of people don’t have empathy when they’re socially conditioned to believe a certain type o…

I myself am not a Trump supporter (I’m a libertarian) but my wife’s family are all Vietnamese and they are diehard Trump / Republicans. I feel like the media is ignoring a huge story which is minorities who despise democrats. The family is extensive and some are quite poor, but every single one of them (no joke) completely hate democrats and left wing politics. One issue that keeps coming up is how universities discr…

I understand where you are coming from, and you are right in some aspects. But there's more context to why there is a narrative that minorities generally "seem" to lean on the American left. It doesn't really have anything to do with how life is represented in the media - after all, minorities don't really consume American media even in this country.

Minorities are by and large generally more culturally conservative than the majority of the West. The only difference is the approach to communalism versus individualism, but the American conservative affinity towards individualism is largely a classical liberal idea. Minority communities are not blind to that, several aspects of progressive politics are incompatible and the media hasn't changed their mind. For instance, the gay and black community is very splintered, and progressives have been able to manage that. Left-wing literature and academia acknowledge this as well. Add influences of the Vietnam War, and you will get a vastly conservative community.

However, party politics in America do not subscribe to a consistent frame of ideologies. As cultures began compounding over the past 60 years, identity is the mainstream approach for appealing to bases. The parties have chosen a side.

A majority of minority voters have weighed the cost-benefits of choosing between their conservative principles or a stronger representation of their people, and found one side more accommodating. Quite literally, the biggest downfall to the advancement of conservative ideals in America is probably one specific party's refusal to appeal towards minority communities. It was true before Trump, Trump only exposed this reality of the Republican base. There could have been a conservative revolution.

One final point. Asians has had to deal with issues of systemic and structural discrimination from both sides of the aisle. The issues go far broader than higher standards of university admission. Very little to do with their affinity towards specific ideologies.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#78
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think things like that are more a result of how information gets disseminated, and how it's framed, than bloodthirst. I'm sure if you took the people that hung that banner and made them hold hand with one of the students as they died, their enthusiasm would quickly fade. The word 'death' is just an abstraction that feels small when you're young, healthy, and haven't had to watch it happen. It's only easy to look at…

> I'm sure if you took the people that hung that banner and made them hold hand with one of the students as they died, their enthusiasm would quickly fade. Maybe this has a tendency to happen in larger group-think situations. Those bloodthirsty individuals weren't at Kent State, they didn't experience any of this first hand, but they were part of a group that was, on some level, afraid of the students, and hated what…

I agree that the abstraction and scale of the federal government is unhealthy. We need to give more power back to local communities to solve problems for themselves.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#79
post #64

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

Wow, I grew up in Kent and I never heard this side of the story. All of the circles I grew up in, despite being conservative, were on the side of the students and thought what the national guard did was an unspeakable tragedy.

I grew up in Kent too, and this is the first I’d heard this side as well.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. I don't live in a world where killing 4 students simply for standing around while a protest was going on to be just, even factoring in property damage, but you do you

> but you do you It's possible to describe/explain something without condoning it.

I'm all for benefit of the doubt in conversations about touchy subjects, but your post did seem to imply a defense, rather than just an observation. I wasn't sure though, so I didn't comment.
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