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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#161

Post by chitowneats »

bigfudge wrote: post #158
chitowneats wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on t…

If black Americans smoke weed rather than alcohol then yes, they take different drugs. Weed is criminalised far in excess of any justification based on personal or social harms. It just seems normal to drink, in a rational drug policy it would be more controlled than many other drugs.

I'm sorry but you're just incorrect if you're suggesting white Americans don't consume cannabis at high rates.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#162

Post by bigfudge »

ineedasername wrote: post #107
refenestrator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but: 1) Selling bootleg booze has health/quality risks that selling weed doesn't. You don't see crackdowns on people selling other plants without a license. 2) Legalizing possession and then only giving licenses to well-connected people who are excellent at getting paperwork through the system is, well, a lot better than nothing but doesn't really solve the whole problem.

Selling is different, I think, than possession because dealers are often not just selling one thing like marijuana, but more dangerous drugs as well. I can understand an arrest in the case of dealing.

Worth remembering that Alcohol is more dangerous than most illegal drugs, including meth, ecstasy, hallucinogens etc.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#163

Post by chitowneats »

bigfudge wrote: post #160
chitowneats wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to. A good place to start is the excellent, nuanced commentary on this topic from black professors Glenn Loury and John McWhorter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0H4M5uP_y8 One thing they reference during this podcast but don't talk about in much detail is the case of Tony Timpa. Many of the things many claim only happen to black Americans are in fact more general issues of police brutality, poor train…

The thing is, it can be true that the police are both generally brutal and racist. In fact that seems the most likely thing given my limited observations of US policing.

Please show evidence for your claim. Anecdotes not accepted.

Edit: Both links I posted discussed studies, statistics, and analysis relevant to this that belie your claim. Please rebut those or post your own.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#164

Post by stjohnswarts »

karaterobot wrote: post #71

Looking at the 28-day periods, aggravated assault is up a lot, robbery is down by a lot, and most of the rest are within what I imagine are the yearly fluctuations. Is there more convincing support for the claim that crime is down in Newark?

What it does confirm is that you don't need "warriored" up cops. Regular protect and serve types will work.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#165

Post by kwertyoowiyop »

misiti3780 wrote: post #79
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #17

Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.

Sam Harris has a new, very interesting podcast with Rener Gracie about police training and how inadequate it is across the entire United States. Officers in California get one - 4 hour course every two years to learn how to subdue criminals, and of the 4 hours, only one is actually spent training, the other three are instruction. Rener Gracie is obviously famous for Brazilian jiu-jitsu but he also trains police on ho…

It seems like a great idea, and that they’ve gathered significant evidence that other police departments can now take advantage of to start their own similar programs. That’s really exciting. The episode did kind of devolve into a commercial for Gracie JJ though. Well, maybe that just keeps it simple for others. One phone number to call for training...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#166

Post by stjohnswarts »

elil17 wrote: post #13

I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.

I'm sure I'll get downvoted but isn't it possible that BOTH the real crime rate is higher in more poverty stricken areas AND that cops are more likely to arrest blacks in general? Does it always have to be one or the other, rather than both?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#167

Post by monocasa »

monoideism wrote: post #154
monocasa wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "li…

> Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? Read them all here: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/site... Those are the actual questions they ask. They "grade" them as liberal or conservative as shown in the columns (they mention that in the methodology section). Also, it's not just 1994 and 2014. They've…

Those are the questions they asked in 2017. I specifically asked for a question asked in both 1994 and 2014. My whole point is that the shape of the questions would change over time to reflect the shifts in the overton window.

That citation does not reflect the requirements I set out.

And I'm not sure where you're going with this Hawley stuff, but it seems pretty off topic from the line being discussed. I'd appreciate if we stayed on point.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#168

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

deepakhj wrote: post #133
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment about arrest rates really needs to go. I've done a deep dive into the numbers. Murder rate data from the FBI has a large "unknown" category, so I'll handle that in a few ways for simplicity. Focusing on murders rather than other violent crime is the best thing to do because, while there may be a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes "assault", how often it's reported, etc., there really isn't much am…

I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. They've been held down since slavery and it still affects them today. Here's a few examples: real estate redlining (even though that was banned it's still happening today in other forms https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... ), the Tulsi race massacre (This story is crazy), urban renewal (Fillmore, West Oakland), all…

>I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically.

I agree! I infer you think it has some causal connection with murder rates. I think that's probably true, but that the relationship is weak. Black people in the U.S., while poorer than average compared to the rest of the U.S. population, are some of the richest people in the world in terms of their actual material consumption. There are lots of poorer (and much poorer) populations out there who do not display similar murder rates. I take that as evidence that not being on the same footing economically is probably not a primary driver of the high murder rate among Black Americans.

>Do you think we can improve the damage we've done through policing?

Yes! Step one is stop causing new damage. I think the easiest way to accomplish this is to end the War on Drugs once and for all. It's the lowest-hanging fruit--a watermelon-sized apple really. We're starting to go down this path as a nation, and it's imperative we keep going down that path. There will be negative effects, but I think the positive effects will greatly outweigh them.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#169

Post by logicslave »

failwhaleshark wrote: post #155

Why is this such a rarity these days? My grandfather was an AP (MP) for decades and never shot at anyone, despite handling uncountable hairy/critical situations with individuals trained in killing. Shoot first and ask questions never? Deescalation and self-control should be job #1 along with verbal/social skills to solve problems before jumping to the nuclear option out of fear.

Because criminals have alot of guns

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#170

Post by failwhaleshark »

logicslave wrote: post #169
failwhaleshark wrote: post #155

Why is this such a rarity these days? My grandfather was an AP (MP) for decades and never shot at anyone, despite handling uncountable hairy/critical situations with individuals trained in killing. Shoot first and ask questions never? Deescalation and self-control should be job #1 along with verbal/social skills to solve problems before jumping to the nuclear option out of fear.

Because criminals have alot of guns

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police?

There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased.

Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

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