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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#131

Post by throwaway1090 »

throwaway1090 wrote: post #5
tyingq wrote: post #2

Some time ago, I watched Frontline's "Policing the Police" episode that featured Newark and Baraka's efforts. The episode was fairly early in their process (2016), and does a nice job of framing up both the problem, and how they intended to solve it. Jelani Cobb hosts it. He does a ride-along, and somewhat incredibly, sees the problems first hand...despite the cops he's riding with knowing full well he's filming ever…

It's on youtube [1]. They released another documentary with the same name and the same Newark subject with 2020 updates [2]. They both have the same duration but are different. [1] Policing the Police (2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8vTl6D940 [2] Policing the Police (2020) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNwWilMVLg Both come with optional English subtitles.

Can't edit above comment. Invidious to the rescue [1]. Just enable 'proxy videos' in settings (circle icon).

https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=2_8vTl6D940

and

https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=taNwWilMVLg

Notes: https://github.com/iv-org/invidious

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#133

Post by deepakhj »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #102
elil17 wrote: post #13

I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.

This sentiment about arrest rates really needs to go. I've done a deep dive into the numbers. Murder rate data from the FBI has a large "unknown" category, so I'll handle that in a few ways for simplicity. Focusing on murders rather than other violent crime is the best thing to do because, while there may be a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes "assault", how often it's reported, etc., there really isn't much am…

I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. They've been held down since slavery and it still affects them today. Here's a few examples: real estate redlining (even though that was banned it's still happening today in other forms https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-...), the Tulsi race massacre (This story is crazy), urban renewal (Fillmore, West Oakland), all the neighborhoods they destroyed building freeways through them (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/role-of..., https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/01/11/senate-considering-10...). The crack cocaine sentencing disparity split up families, creating the single parent unit, throw in the gang explosion in the 90s, and tough on crime sentencing, it's amazing people make it out of the hood.

Do you think we can improve the damage we've done through policing?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#134

Post by monoideism »

monocasa wrote: post #119
monoideism wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what has actually happened to the country's political values (click animate to view the data over the past several decades): https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Here is a more detailed discussion of the data. Tragically, Pew Research describes the situation as dire even back in 2014, which was before polarization really started to accelerate. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20…

That says nothing about the actual policies, only how polarized they are against each other relatively. Since 1992, both parties have moved to the right, just the Republicans have moved moreso. That's how we ended up with Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation's 1994 HEART Act becoming Obamacare and radioactive to the Republicans two decades later. Go check out the concept of the overton window and see how a windo…

Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of the "Overton Window" (I'm well aware of the concept).

So this poll measures both absolute and relative movement.

I actually agree that there has been some shifting to the right of the Overton Window in fiscal and economic issues only as the Democratic Party has abandoned its traditional working class constituency. But that has no bearing on this poll.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#135

Post by lupire »

leetcrew wrote: post #125
quickthrowman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making your own moonshine can kill people via methanol poisoning. Weed can’t kill you. What’s your point again? Hundreds of thousands of pounds of weed are sold via the black market every year, yet nobody dies[0]. You could also never be caught for moonshining, I know drug dealers who have sold for years without any police contact. [0] People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Oth…

> People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever. there are also concerns about microbial contamination with weed that is improperly grown/processed. this is exactly why weed ought to be legal but regulated. people engaged in grey market sales are performing an end run around the new safety regulations.

Is microbial contamination of weed more dangerous than contamination of vegetables?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#136

Post by monocasa »

monoideism wrote: post #134
monocasa wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That says nothing about the actual policies, only how polarized they are against each other relatively. Since 1992, both parties have moved to the right, just the Republicans have moved moreso. That's how we ended up with Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation's 1994 HEART Act becoming Obamacare and radioactive to the Republicans two decades later. Go check out the concept of the overton window and see how a windo…

Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of the "Overton Window" (I'm well aware of the concept). So this poll measures both absolute and relative movement. I actually agree that there has been some shifting to the right of the Overton Window in fiscal and economic issues only as the Democratic Party ha…

I've read the entire study many times. Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time?

Even the fact that "liberal" means left now is a function of how far to the right the democrats have gone, the Third Way Democrats having cemented their hold on the party.

Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position. Being lukewarm for left wing positions only on the condition that it doesn't come out of public funding is at best a center right wing viewpoint.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#137

Post by jghn »

karaterobot wrote: post #71

Looking at the 28-day periods, aggravated assault is up a lot, robbery is down by a lot, and most of the rest are within what I imagine are the yearly fluctuations. Is there more convincing support for the claim that crime is down in Newark?

Even if it stays stable, isn't that enough evidence that we don't need the Warrior Cop model? Being able to demonstrate an improvement in crime by toning down the violence is just gravy on top.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#138

Post by Klinky »

monoideism wrote: post #105
Klinky wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make a statement and provide a source that contradicts your statement, yes, you should be questioned on why you even provided that source in the first place, and if you actually read/comprehended it. That isn't "shutting them up", they invalidated their own claims with their own source.

Question? Absolutely. I encourage respectful questioning and refuting. Flagging and censoring? (cdot2 had been flagged into invisibility until he was unflagged) "paradox of tolerance"[1]? Nope 1. People should read _Open Society and Its Enemies_ before making that argument, because how they're applying it is not what Popper argued.

I don't see why the HN community has to honor/uphold/tolerate/defend the opinion of a throwaway account posting inaccurate information its own cited source refutes. These alternative viewpoints need to have some level of credibility to them, we should not defend every rando's opinion blindly.

I don't think an "open society" has ever actually existed or is even possible. All freedoms are measured in degrees based on the society. "Open society" likely leads more to vacuums filled by whoever has the best propaganda. George Soros, one of the bigger proponents of Popper, what with his Open Society Foundation inspired by Popper's works, has noted that deceptive modern advertising and propaganda casts doubts on the viability of Popper's vision of an open society[1]. However, Soros is often viewed as a liberal mouthpiece propagandist attempting to suppress conservative viewpoints, and is often the target of misinformation conspiracy theory campaigns himself.

How much tolerance must we show? "The sky is purple"? "2+2=5"? Society must acknowledge these viewpoints? The mere act of acknowledging them as "viable alternative viewpoints" lends them credibility, which only festers more misinformation. It feels like as of late there has been increased pressure by certain groups to recategorize repugnant viewpoints as not being repugnant, but simply "a different perspective, worthy of tolerance and legitimacy".

1.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/11/frompo...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#139

Post by leetcrew »

lupire wrote: post #135
leetcrew wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever. there are also concerns about microbial contamination with weed that is improperly grown/processed. this is exactly why weed ought to be legal but regulated. people engaged in grey market sales are performing an end run around the new safety regulations.

Is microbial contamination of weed more dangerous than contamination of vegetables?

I dunno, probably depends on the microbe? there are also laws that apply to produce growers over a certain (very low) revenue threshold, if that's what you're getting at.

but anyways, that's kinda besides the point. if people are growing stuff for their own consumption, I don't really care how safely they do it. I'm all for people distilling whiskey at their own risk. but if you're going to make money selling stuff to other people, it should be as safe as is reasonably possible. somehow I get the idea that random dudes selling flowers/concentrates/cartridges aren't looking that deeply into their supply chain. people died recently from what should be a fairly harmless plant.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#140

Post by throwawayboise »

karaterobot wrote: post #71

Looking at the 28-day periods, aggravated assault is up a lot, robbery is down by a lot, and most of the rest are within what I imagine are the yearly fluctuations. Is there more convincing support for the claim that crime is down in Newark?

Police rarely stop crimes in progress. As the saying goes, "when seconds count, the police are minutes away."

A strategy of high visibility, or "omnipresence" may have more of a deterrent effect than anything else.

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