The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth • Hacker News Board

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#111

Post by lupire » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bladegash wrote: post #25

tehwebguy wrote: post #10

As someone with an Armenian dad and last name, I’ve felt some interest in this story and my country’s (US) refusal so far to acknowledge it since learning about it. It’s pretty far removed from me, and I’d probably not live here if my ancestors hadn’t fled the Turks back in the day, but it’s also very sad to see that it’s used as a political token over and over again. Obama promised that he’d be the first sitting pre…

As someone from the SFV, I appreciate and understood completely the Glendale reference. The same thought crossed my mind, which is why is this acknowledgment such an important issue and why now? I agree with you and doubt it is to earn points with a super small (albeit wealthy) constituency. I have never even heard people care about this outside of politicians and the news. Just seems like a very strange hill to die…

It only matters in the sense of it being an official statement from the US calling Erdogan a liar and partially deligitmizing his tyrannnical regime, vs US maintaining its up-til-now hypocrisy that the Armenian genocide is irrelevant but the Jewish Holocaust matters.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#112

Post by lupire » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #107

habibur wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation.

> I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation. That would be a great turn of events for Turkey, Armenia, the U.S. and the world! The U.S. would have the opportunity to respond in kind, acknowledge the North American Genocide, pay reparations for it, and pressure other countries to do the corresponding thing with a very clean face.

The North American Genocide is taught in our history books. It's not suppressed.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#113

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

habibur wrote: post #43

throwawaymylove wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when the US will fully recognize the North American Native Genocide and build a monument in DC - hopefully in proportion to the monument in NYC.

I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation.

> I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation.

Erdogan explicitly threatened to do so last year:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/erdogan...

Probably a more effective threat when used against a government whose most senior sub-Presidential official dealing with Native American issues isn’t a Native American who has herself explicitly called out the genocide while serving in Congress.

At this point, it is kind of like threatening to “acknowledge” that the US has a continuing history of systematic racism against Blacks. It’s true, and a negative, but not exsactly the kind of thing the present government has any problem acknowledging, so its not exactly a useful threat.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#114

Post by kingofpandora » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #98

Leary wrote: post #16

Interesting article, however I couldn't find primary Turkish sources that detailed the reasoning behind the deportations. Did the Turks institute the policy to remove Armenians from within Turkey or to exterminate them?

> I couldn't find primary Turkish sources The Turkish government doesn't acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. And because it's punishable to do so there might be no "Turkish" sources at all. I use quotes because obviously there are Turkish people who don't deny it happened and some of them might have written about it.

You don't need to use scare quotes (in fact, you seem to be using them incorrectly). In any case, there are several Turkish scholars who acknowledge the Armenian genocide and have written about it.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#115

Post by vasac » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #104

HappyDreamer wrote: post #44

This hate is a bit present, still today. In Stockholm, Sweden, 5 years ago: "Death to the Armenian dogs", said B. Leylani, who was, back then, the vice president of the Turkish National Association of Sweden. The spectators (Turkish extremists?) were cheering. Later he had to resign (there are also, of course, kind and reasonable people in that organization, who don't want any more genocides, and I presume they didn'…

You'll find the same sentiments among Russians, Moroccans, Israelis, Japanese, Serbians... The Germans may be almost unique in that they took full responsibility for the crimes their state committed.

Let me continue with that list of countries: USA, UK...

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#116

Post by enriquto » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #32

daneel_w wrote: post #18

Striking how much downvoting on comments with links to more facts about the genocide is going on here. Striking, but not the least surprising...

Yes. Something/someone is hitting very benign comments hard, you can watch comments get obliterated.

These "political" HN threads are often best read starting from the bottom of the page.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#117

Post by belgesel » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

ismaildonmez wrote: post #3

As a guy born in Turkey I’m happy that this is finally getting the recognition it deserves. On the other hand, finding any neutral resource about the First World War in Turkey is hard to come by. The best resource I’ve found so far is written by a German General called Otto Liman von Sanders, he wrote a book called “Five Years in Turkey” [0] talking about 1913 - 1918. It at least has some parts on the events which wi…

I want to know what will this recognition does to your own country both in short and long term. Will Turkey pay a fee for the genocide or will they have to just give up from Ağrı?

This subject was always used against Turkey in political confrontations for years. Turkey has been better and stronger ally to USA. This recognition is nothing but a political warning against Erdoğan and his latest actions against USA and also this will make Armenian residents in USA happy.

IMHO nothing will change for us (Turkish and Armenian folks living in Turkey), don’t know about Armenians living in Armenia.

So why are you happy?

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#118

Post by Gimpei » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

belatw wrote: post #54

Gimpei wrote: post #34

My family is Assyrian and was living in a region of Iran that was at the time still part of the Ottoman empire. During the genocide, the Kurdish proxies of the regime came into my grandmother's village, murdered all the men, and raped the women before deporting them. My grandmother walked 600 miles to the Persian gulf, during which time she had a miscarriage from the rape. About two-thirds of the Assyrian population…

During the population exchange My mother in law’s Turkish family were forced to walk to Istanbul from their village in Makedonya with nothing but the gold coins they had sewn into their blankets and hid into their shoes. 1/4 of them were killed by Greeks. The same story with my father in law coming from northern Bulgaria. Nobody brings this up, because it was Christians killing Muslims. Still the Armenians remained a…

I think that's fair. There were definitely purges of Turkish and other European Muslims at the time, and they should be acknowledged. On a related note, I have a friend who is Serbian and he claims there were Bosnian atrocities against Serbs during the civil war that nobody hears about.

Still, I would point out that, just as in the Bosnian war, the scale of atrocities was a lot worse on the side that is more remembered. Over a million Armenians and other minorities were systematically raped, murdered, and purged at the behest of Ottoman authorities. It's unclear to me why Turkey does not want to acknowledge this. You can still appreciate your country while recognizing that people in the past did some pretty bad things. The world is a complicated place.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#119

Post by stjohnswarts » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

kingofpandora wrote: post #114

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't find primary Turkish sources The Turkish government doesn't acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. And because it's punishable to do so there might be no "Turkish" sources at all. I use quotes because obviously there are Turkish people who don't deny it happened and some of them might have written about it.

You don't need to use scare quotes (in fact, you seem to be using them incorrectly). In any case, there are several Turkish scholars who acknowledge the Armenian genocide and have written about it.

Usually with something like that which would be an "open secret" in Turkey people would usually mean the 99% who don't acknowledge it rather than the 1% who do acknowledge it.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#120

Post by stjohnswarts » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

apostacy wrote: post #9

Since Facebook has agreed to implement censorship on behalf of the Turkish government[1], how long is it until discussion of the Armenian genocide is flagged as hate speech and fake news? As far as Turkey is concerned, this is fake news. And big tech has agreed to defer to Turkey. [1]: https://www.engadget.com/facebook-turkey-emails-200407588.ht...

Likely it can be removed internally at the behest of the government, I doubt if they will ever censor it in other countries. That should answer your question.