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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

111–120 of 271 posts

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors…

You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on t…

I listed a few examples; there are many others that are well known and easy to learn about. If you want to provide evidence, address the issues, and advance our knowledge, please do!

> you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct.

But these strawperson characterizations and this victimhood are more distractions from the issues, as is the ignorance of the GGP post I responded to above - they are well-known ways of halting progress. And yes, there are some things that are well-established (though again, I haven't said the words you put in my mouth); I'm not going to spend time reviewing all human knowledge (also a well-known technique of stopping discussion). I'm here to move forward.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC is not free though.

Neither is PBS. It’s funded through grants, donations and government funding via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_for_Public_Broad...

Right, but even to endusers, the BBC isn't free, unlike PBC.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#113

Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.

It's more complicated than that.

They disbanded the entire department -- breaking the police union in the process, and then hired far _more_ (but somewhat lower-paid) police than before.

The new, larger, but reformed department has done dramatically better than before. So there's really something for everyone -- breaking the union was important, _increasing_ funding was important, but also increased de-escalation training helped.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#114

Looking at the 28-day periods, aggravated assault is up a lot, robbery is down by a lot, and most of the rest are within what I imagine are the yearly fluctuations. Is there more convincing support for the claim that crime is down in Newark?

Violent crime has been on a decade-long decline in Newark[1] so wouldn't at all be surprising if crime as a whole declined in 2020.

[1] https://www.city-data.com/city/Newark-New-Jersey.html

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The largest factors are likely to be culture (coming from leadership) and higher scrutiny (mentioned in the article as a requirement to report and investigate any use of force).

Couldn’t possibly be a confluence of all the above? Not even in the tiniest degree?

"Largest factor" implies there are others as well.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do tell me what's "disgusting" about mentioning a statistical fact? Feel free to look at the FBI's uniform crime statistics, among others and see what I mean. Ideological considerations only make progress harder when they blatantly try to ignore realities. As for your claim that police disproportionately kill black people, well, actually it's a bit more complicated than that and doesn't quite negate what I men…

Maybe you think you are being helpful and informative, but citing the FBI statistics is a tired trope and you are behaving, online, indistinguishably from hardcore racists. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/despite-being-only-13-percent... EDIT: themgt, this is not a throwaway account. I'm a long time user that often gets banned and returns to try again to have reasonable discourse. I find it hard because for educated p…

You posted the link to USA Today which cites and links multiple times to the exact same FBI Uniform Crime Reporting statistics, which are the USA's canonical summary of national crime data.

I am flagging this because you're a throwaway account who's calling people Nazis and "hardcore racists" for referring to the exact same dataset you yourself brought into the discussion. This type of grossly unprincipled behavior is why having a productive discussion about crime in this country is impossible.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors…

You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on t…

>That policy was rectified many years ago.

You're half right - the 2010 Fair Sentencing Act reformed the punishment ratio from 100:1 to about 18:1, and later in 2018 Congress made this change retroactive. This certainly improved the issue, but lawmakers continue to discuss whether it should be eliminated entirely.

Source: https://www.vox.com/2021/3/19/22336224/equal-act-cocaine-sen...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#118
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but: 1) Selling bootleg booze has health/quality risks that selling weed doesn't. You don't see crackdowns on people selling other plants without a license. 2) Legalizing possession and then only giving licenses to well-connected people who are excellent at getting paperwork through the system is, well, a lot better than nothing but doesn't really solve the whole problem.

Why does the business of selling cannabis need to be so accessible? If someone wants to do it, they can put in the work to 'get the paperwork through the system'; if they just want it to be available to them and their friends, well, now it is, because someone else has put in that work. I don't really see the issue? (But then, I'm glad to live in a country that hasn't legalised it, so what do I know.)

In most states the licenses are extremely hard to get, it's not a matter of just 'putting in the work'. They're effectively out of reach for your standard weed dealer.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#119
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective the U.S. has steadily shifted to the right the past 40 years. I doubt that a person advocating Reagan’s policies would be supported by today’s Republican Party. We have entered into territory where the paradox of tolerance is very much a reality. Tolerance is no longer a good option when confronting disingenuous comments. There is a significant segment of the American public that simply can no lon…

This is what has actually happened to the country's political values (click animate to view the data over the past several decades): https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Here is a more detailed discussion of the data. Tragically, Pew Research describes the situation as dire even back in 2014, which was before polarization really started to accelerate. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20…

That says nothing about the actual policies, only how polarized they are against each other relatively. Since 1992, both parties have moved to the right, just the Republicans have moved moreso. That's how we ended up with Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation's 1994 HEART Act becoming Obamacare and radioactive to the Republicans two decades later.

Go check out the concept of the overton window and see how a window can move to the right while both sides become more distinct within that window.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#120

Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.

It's more complicated than that. They disbanded the entire department -- breaking the police union in the process, and then hired far _more_ (but somewhat lower-paid) police than before. The new, larger, but reformed department has done dramatically better than before. So there's really something for everyone -- breaking the union was important, _increasing_ funding was important, but also increased de-escalation tra…

I think that was Camden, not Newark.
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