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The Girl in the Kent State Photo

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#41

Post by throwaway_isms »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

With so many people so enthusiastic about the war and death...it makes you wonder why the US needed to implement the draft in the first place. I guess its easier to write death threats to a 14 year old girl and terrorize her behind the cowardice of anonymity than to live up to ones own ideals, no matter how misguided they may be.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#42

Post by loeg »

lisper wrote: post #35
lazulicurio wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that is true for certain denominations, it is most definitely not universal[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell

I'm an atheist so I don't really have a dog in this particular fight, but Jesus was pretty clear about this: Mark16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Not all Christian sects (nor individual Christians) are textual literalists. (Probably most aren't, with respect to arbitrary single verses. There's a lot of random crap in there. E.g., https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_ch... )

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#43

Post by GordonS »

mmcgaha wrote: post #37
a4isms wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud your optimism and boundless faith in humanity. But as a POC, I point out that America has a long tradition of taking children to witness lynchings, and the children would cheer. Or to beat foxes to death with sticks. I don't think it’s as simple as “people don’t have emppathy when death is abstract and indirect.” Lots of people don’t have empathy when they’re socially conditioned to believe a certain type o…

Cruelty is a human trait that is not bound by nationality, race, nor religion. I get the desire to slice up the pie of humanity and point to the piece called America; it gives us hope that maybe the problem can be solved. No human cruelty will never go away. It may wax and wane, but it will always be in our nature.

> Cruelty is a human trait that is not bound by nationality, race, nor religion

This is certainly true, but it's also the case that history, culture and ideology influence the behaviours of geographically-close groups of people over the medium-long term.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#44

Post by gostsamo »

cochne wrote: post #25
happytoexplain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day after the shooting, a banner was hung in the West Point cafeteria stating, "Us: 4, Them: 0". America has a non-negligible percent of population who I can only describe as "bloodthirsty for no good reason". They've been here a long time, and remain here today. When we try to discuss the problem, the noise from political side-taking usually overtakes the conversation.

Is there any source for that? I tried searching but the first result is this comment!

Search for "victim blaming" or "she was looking for trouble dressing like that and walking late at night on the streets".

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#45

Post by spoonjim »

throw0101a wrote: post #38
happytoexplain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day after the shooting, a banner was hung in the West Point cafeteria stating, "Us: 4, Them: 0". America has a non-negligible percent of population who I can only describe as "bloodthirsty for no good reason". They've been here a long time, and remain here today. When we try to discuss the problem, the noise from political side-taking usually overtakes the conversation.

Or they view justice differently: > Justice: The world may be a difficult place to live, but it is basically just; people usually get what they deserve. The difficulties in one's life serve as a test to sort the deserving from the undeserving. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Politics_(book)

Anyone who views the Kent State killings as “justice” is deeply dangerous to the health and well-being of those around them.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#46

Post by space_fountain »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

Not at all making it ok, but in addition to burning down the rtc building, the protesters ransacked downtown. Lots of broken glass etc. Also a lot of the protesters were from outside Kent (not that that means they deserved to die)

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#47

Post by lisper »

loeg wrote: post #42
lisper wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an atheist so I don't really have a dog in this particular fight, but Jesus was pretty clear about this: Mark16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Not all Christian sects (nor individual Christians) are textual literalists. (Probably most aren't, with respect to arbitrary single verses. There's a lot of random crap in there. E.g., https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_ch... )

I didn't say they were. I just said that Jesus was pretty clear about this.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#48

Post by fit2rule »

happytoexplain wrote: post #10
pmoriarty wrote: post #9

"Back in Kent, Ohio, local business owners ran an ad thanking the National Guard. Mail poured in to the mayor's office, blaming "dirty hippies," "longhairs" and "outside agitators" for the violence. Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, "At least we got four of them." Nixon issued a statement saying that the students' actions had invited the tra…

The day after the shooting, a banner was hung in the West Point cafeteria stating, "Us: 4, Them: 0". America has a non-negligible percent of population who I can only describe as "bloodthirsty for no good reason". They've been here a long time, and remain here today. When we try to discuss the problem, the noise from political side-taking usually overtakes the conversation.

When you try to discuss the problem you either a) get booted off the site for being 'disturbing', or b) get called a Russian shill, or c) both.

The Russia-hate these days is a classic example.

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#49

Post by loeg »

lisper wrote: post #47
loeg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all Christian sects (nor individual Christians) are textual literalists. (Probably most aren't, with respect to arbitrary single verses. There's a lot of random crap in there. E.g., https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_ch... )

I didn't say they were. I just said that Jesus was pretty clear about this.

Sure. Even that is somewhat debatable; Mark wasn't written until 3-4 decades after Jesus' death.[0]

> The Church has consequently derived its view of Jesus primarily from Matthew, secondarily from John, and only distantly from Mark.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark

Re: The Girl in the Kent State Photo

#50

Post by PostOnce »

dragonwriter wrote: post #40
PostOnce wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we do discuss those things... constantly. It seems to be all we talk about. America's wrongs. To play the other half of this argument: America engaged in slavery, but also fought its bloodiest war to end it, played a major role in ending the Holocaust and freeing Europe from the Nazis, ended Japan's conquest of Asia, freed South Korea, and brought about through hyperpower probably the longest peace between major…

> To play the other half of this argument: America engaged in slavery, but also fought its bloodiest war to end it It was only “its bloodiest war” because a sizable fraction of the country was fighting to protect slavery . Much of the rest of the world that had chattel slavery ended it without similarly bloody wars—and generally sooner. The fierce defense of chattel slavery in the US that produced its bloodiest war i…

It would have been bloodless had the Union just said "okay let's have slavery."

But they didn't do that. They laid down their lives instead.

Like I said before, picking out only the things we dislike and overlooking positives isn't productive or honest to ourselves.

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