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Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

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Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#211
post #134
post #60

These chimeras pave the way for more accurate models of human biology and disease The goal, the team says, is to make better models for studying biological development, evolution, disease progression and treatments. "As we are unable to conduct certain types of experiments in humans, it is essential that we have better models to more accurately study and understand human biology and disease," Interestingly, the revie…

People need to have the freedom to do research. If Galilio agreed to stop researching due to protests, we wouldn't be here today.

You may want to look up the works of Dr. Josef Mengele and then re-evaluate your first sentence.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] No one has any idea what consciousness is, how it arises, what its physical correlates and boundaries are, what perceived valence corresponds to, whether small systems can experience pleasure or suffering beyond what humans are used to...

Things can't be further detached from reality. Once you ever spend a few days with a herd of cows, you get a feeling for their personalities, their joy, their pain. Comparing to a group of humans, be it kids on a playground or some factory worker, you really start to wonder why in one case we allow ownership, life-long suffering and death under excruciating pain, while in the other case those things are punished by l…

Did you know that when you cut grass it sends out distress signal - the lovely smell of fresh cut grass. In principle it is the grass screaming out loud in horror. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30573/what-causes-fresh-... Unfortunately we can't survive without hurting other species.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real question is, why should we care what some sharmen that have been dead several millenniums would think?

Oh, I just think it's interesting to think about these things! They've obviously played a huge role in the development of our modern societies (at least in the west) and studying the theology is just an interesting and revealing thing to do. Why do we study history? Same reason :)

I take your point. It's worth studying these things out of curiosity, but I wouldn't seek guidance from these fables any more than I'd seek Napoleon's advice on air-to-air combat tactics.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things can't be further detached from reality. Once you ever spend a few days with a herd of cows, you get a feeling for their personalities, their joy, their pain. Comparing to a group of humans, be it kids on a playground or some factory worker, you really start to wonder why in one case we allow ownership, life-long suffering and death under excruciating pain, while in the other case those things are punished by l…

Did you know that when you cut grass it sends out distress signal - the lovely smell of fresh cut grass. In principle it is the grass screaming out loud in horror. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30573/what-causes-fresh-... Unfortunately we can't survive without hurting other species.

Humans are also great at personifying non-person things. The grass isn't 'screaming out in horror', rather it's emitting a chemical that its evolved to emit in response to certain stimuli.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you finish reading the article? > After 10 days, there were 103 of these chimeric embryos remaining, but by day 19 only three still survived. After that, the embryos were terminated before they developed any further. Clusters of cells can't be 'tortured in a lab,' there are plenty of legitimate problems in the world to be outraged about but this really isn't one of them.

Okay, on day 19 three of them are clusters of cells, how about day 280? How about year 5? I think the argument is that a majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos, and even more unethical to conduct research on them were they to mature.

> Okay, on day 19 three of them are clusters of cells, how about day 280?

Even supposing they had, completely unethically, actually transferred these embryos into a woman or monkey, the odds of any of the three surviving to term are likely quite low. The most likely outcome would be miscarriage and probably a quite early one at that.

We don't even know if survival to term would be possible. It may be simply impossible due to some genetic incompatibility. Even if it were possible, it would quite likely take (on average) hundreds of attempts before you'd have a success.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#216
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i heard someone make this interesting observation: handicapped people could be a test of god for the rest of us. but your friends may also consider this: any suffering in this life is rewarded in the next life (the life after death) god doesn't give us tests that we couldn't possibly pass. if you are compassionate, i hope you won't ridicule your friends for their belief but try to help them come to terms with their s…

> god doesn’t give us tests that we couldn’t possibly pass I get that you’re framing this in a context that OPs friend might take solace in, but when you put it like that it just sounds like a cruel joke to me.

i appreciate that you take this in the spirit that it was meant.

it just sounds like a cruel joke to me

what would be the alternative?

when anyone suffers, they need help to end that suffering, but also hope and encouragement that they will get through it, because some things just can't be fixed with material means.

if you look at this as if there is a god out there that goes: hmm, this family needs a test. how about i mess up their baby?

that would indeed be cruel. but that is not what i believe is happening. i don't know what that particular child suffers from, but by now we can explain many birth defects to some humans mistakenly or intentionally doing something wrong, like poisoning water with chemicals or malfunctioning nuclear reactors, or what not. i don't believe that any of these are pure acts of god. but they could all be prevented if humans as a whole were more diligent. (i don't mean that any individual could have done anything by themselves, but that as humanity we need to work together to avoid and remove things that cause people to suffer[1])

this is a consequence of free will. bad things happen, because if god were to prevent them, then we would not have free will.

nevertheless on an individual level god does promise that whatever suffering we experience is rewarded in the next life, and that we are all given the capacity to pass the tests that we experience and get through that suffering.

[1] that is in fact happening. we have eliminated many diseases and quality of life on average is improving globally. there is more work to be done, but we are getting there.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#218

I am by no means whatsoever an Alex Jones listener or fan. But he's been laughed at for proclaiming that human/animal hybrids are being "developed" for some time now (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa9jXkVpnw0 , for example). It's scary to see this article because it's essentially "proving" Alex Jones right. This is a very bad precedent. The issue at hand is serious, but it's obscured because of the comedic/craz…

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Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#219
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the common definition of a natural process is one that happens without human intervention. you are applying a different definition that is problematic. by your definition murder could be considered natural

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/natural only one sub-item of these fifteen definitions of natural say "no human intervention". Lets look at the definition for nature: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nature Definition 2b is succint: "an inner force (such as instinct, appetite, desire) or the sum of such forces in an individual" According to this, murder is in fact quite natural. I don't like argu…

I don't like arguments about definitions

i agree. i do however like to clarify definitions so that we all know what we mean. i am quite happy to continue the discussion with OPs definition of natural, because now that we understand what that definition is we can get back to the actual core of the issue.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#220

I know I’ll be downvoted, but here it goes: there’s an implicit and unavoidable act of rebellion (to a potential God), in this and other similar scientific research. Even if you’re atheist, you cannot escape the underlying reference to a Biblical story: I want the freedom to be like a God.

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