Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

newatlas.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 250 posts

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#121

Post by scoopertrooper »

drukenemo wrote: post #119

I know I’ll be downvoted, but here it goes: there’s an implicit and unavoidable act of rebellion (to a potential God), in this and other similar scientific research. Even if you’re atheist, you cannot escape the underlying reference to a Biblical story: I want the freedom to be like a God.

If you don't accept the proposition of the supernatural, how can you rebel against it?

Any mastery of nature could be viewed as rebellion against mysticism. Viewed in that context, humans have been rebelling since they learned how to create fire on demand rather than relying on 'God' to gift it from the heavens.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#122

Post by scoopertrooper »

warent wrote: post #117
brbsix wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research is already performed using human fetal tissue obtained from aborted fetuses. How is this significantly different? "A majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos" seems contradictory to the current legal status of abortion in the US. Perhaps it is unethical but worth doing regardless?

Just how many women create a fetus and abort it in the name of science? Human embryos are not manufactured for experimentation. What you're talking about is completely orthogonal. Now, breeding/manufacturing animals for experiments is awful and morally complex--ethically unclear (at least to me). But the line must be drawn somewhere, and we can very easily draw it at manufacturing human-monkeys, human-pigs, or human-…

At what point does a thing become a human-thing? Imagine there was a way to copy a few human genes over to a mouse so that its immune system more closely resembled a human, but it was still, in every other respect, a mouse. Would it be a human-mouse?

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#123

Post by sebmellen »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #121
drukenemo wrote: post #119

I know I’ll be downvoted, but here it goes: there’s an implicit and unavoidable act of rebellion (to a potential God), in this and other similar scientific research. Even if you’re atheist, you cannot escape the underlying reference to a Biblical story: I want the freedom to be like a God.

If you don't accept the proposition of the supernatural, how can you rebel against it? Any mastery of nature could be viewed as rebellion against mysticism. Viewed in that context, humans have been rebelling since they learned how to create fire on demand rather than relying on 'God' to gift it from the heavens.

Is that not the story of the Bible as well?

> And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Now the question is if the Bible views this "inculcation" of God-like-ness to be a good or bad thing. In a Gnostic interpretation this transcendence from Man into God is the ultimate goal.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#125

Post by qazwse_ »

cercatrova wrote: post #124

This is great news. Anything that advances science should be done. I don't necessarily understand those that are having a moral panic at this news.

I don't feel morally panicked by this, unless the goal is to have "human-like" animals to experiment on.

However, saying anything that advances science should be done is a crazy take. I do not believe that people should be tortured, that people should be given drugs against their will, or even be forced to take part in experiments.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#126

Post by halfjoking »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #122
warent wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just how many women create a fetus and abort it in the name of science? Human embryos are not manufactured for experimentation. What you're talking about is completely orthogonal. Now, breeding/manufacturing animals for experiments is awful and morally complex--ethically unclear (at least to me). But the line must be drawn somewhere, and we can very easily draw it at manufacturing human-monkeys, human-pigs, or human-…

At what point does a thing become a human-thing? Imagine there was a way to copy a few human genes over to a mouse so that its immune system more closely resembled a human, but it was still, in every other respect, a mouse. Would it be a human-mouse?

Good question. Ear-mouse wants to hear the answer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1945000/images/_1949073_mouse_...

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#127

Post by alexanderdmitri »

warent wrote: post #117
brbsix wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research is already performed using human fetal tissue obtained from aborted fetuses. How is this significantly different? "A majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos" seems contradictory to the current legal status of abortion in the US. Perhaps it is unethical but worth doing regardless?

Just how many women create a fetus and abort it in the name of science? Human embryos are not manufactured for experimentation. What you're talking about is completely orthogonal. Now, breeding/manufacturing animals for experiments is awful and morally complex--ethically unclear (at least to me). But the line must be drawn somewhere, and we can very easily draw it at manufacturing human-monkeys, human-pigs, or human-…

Here are some numbers from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm#T9_down

Stats don't say what the abortions were in the name of though (that I see on first review at least).

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#128

Post by sebmellen »

viraptor wrote: post #87
sebmellen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jones is a kind of "bullshitter," as defined by Harry Frankfurt [0][1]. To paraphrase — a liar has some respect for the truth, because he knows its power and shies away from it. A bullshitter doesn't care if something is true or false, only if they persuade their listener, and therefore the bullshitter has no respect for the truth. The point I was trying to make, and maybe I did not make it well, was that this is ano…

We can't prevent it until it crosses into directly harmful territory. We can just ignore it and call out the random luck when it is. He wasn't the first one and won't be the last one.

I'm with you there.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#129

Post by scoopertrooper »

sebmellen wrote: post #123
scoopertrooper wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't accept the proposition of the supernatural, how can you rebel against it? Any mastery of nature could be viewed as rebellion against mysticism. Viewed in that context, humans have been rebelling since they learned how to create fire on demand rather than relying on 'God' to gift it from the heavens.

Is that not the story of the Bible as well? > And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Now the question is if the Bible views this "inculcation" of God-like-ness to be a good or bad thing. In a Gnostic interpretation this transcendence from Man into God is the ultimate goal.

I think the real question is, why should we care what some sharmen that have been dead several millenniums would think?

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#130

Post by scoopertrooper »

halfjoking wrote: post #126
scoopertrooper wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does a thing become a human-thing? Imagine there was a way to copy a few human genes over to a mouse so that its immune system more closely resembled a human, but it was still, in every other respect, a mouse. Would it be a human-mouse?

Good question. Ear-mouse wants to hear the answer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1945000/images/_1949073_mouse_...

Ear mouse cant hear the answer because its additional ear is just some cow cartliage that's been molded to resemble an ear.
Post reply on HN