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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#461

Post by clouddrover »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #297
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

> From what I understand batteries remain the lion's share of an electric vehicle's total production cost (I've heard as much as $16K/vehicle). I've seen this same figure for current EVs. But it's important to look at the trend. Lithium-ion battery prices have decreased by 97% since their introduction in 1991. The price decrease curve is amazing [0]. Teslas were at least $80K in 2015; today a Tesla with similar range…

Lithium sulfur batteries are also interesting. They're cheaper, lighter, and the cells don't use cobalt, manganese, or nickel.

The problem to date has been poor cycle life but people are working on it:

- https://oxisenergy.com/technology/

- https://oxisenergy.com/wp-content-uploads-2020-11-press-rele...

- https://theconversation.com/batteries-made-with-sulfur-could...

- https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/1/eaay2757

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#462

Post by throwaway0xa »

zbrozek wrote: post #349
geoelectric wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may depend on where you live, and what your electricity consumption already is. In CA, for example, with our tiered billing and PG&E's award-winning business practices, it's pretty easy for an electric car to rack up quite an energy bill. If you were already using electricity up to the top of your tier, the add for the car will be at $$$ rate. So they also have non-tiered plans for electric car owners but those…

Beware NEM 3.0. Note that the CA utilities are working to try to keep milking you even if you have solar. The most loathsome part of it is that the utilities are trying to charge you $10/month/kilowatt-peak for the array you own, even if they push zero energy onto the grid. From my perspective, that's ridiculous rent-seeking. Personally I'm working towards getting off the grid entirely.

The $10 a month is a service charge to be connected to the grid with a meter, so you can send energy to the grid to get money back, or use the grid when your solar isn't generating enough energy.

I think that's fair. It pays for the meter, the transformer you're connected to, the grid circuit, etc.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#463

Post by btbuilder »

fassssst wrote: post #102
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

The price is high compared with ICE but for what you get as an EV it is well priced. Significantly cheaper than model Y [1] now that model Y standard range has been discontinued, especially as VW still gets the $7500 fed subsidy. You are looking at $14k more for the Tesla. You will get much more acceleration, all wheel drive and 70 miles range for that $14k if you want to spend it.

The model 3 is cheaper but not the same class of vehicle.

[1] https://electrek.co/2021/04/22/tesla-increases-model-3-y-pri...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#464

Post by cptskippy »

sib wrote: post #329
cptskippy wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But yet an electric is going to replace a $21K Honda Civic by 2025? What's the average selling price of a Civic? With options the Civic can sell for over $35k.

Edmunds.com shows the MSRP range for a 2021 Civic ranges from $21,050 - $28,100.

Go price one on Honda.com. I got my upper by kitting out a Touring Edition with options.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#465

Post by Mountain_Skies »

ethbr0 wrote: post #366
hahajk wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dang, $29k starting price and you don’t even get power windows? What happened to the F150??

IMHO, power windows are just another thing to inevitably break. I have yet to have a manual window break.

Power windows are nice when you're driving and want to open the passenger side window but other than that, it's mostly a luxury.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#466

Post by plank_time »

outside1234 wrote: post #196
cameldrv wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified. The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The a…

But Tesla's cars are exactly this - they are largely gas sedans that look normal and are electric. People don't want some dorky looking electric car like Volkswagen's or BMW's. They want a normal car that's electric.

No. You probably have never driven one if that’s what you think. A Model 3 is inherently different.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#467

Post by argonaut »

ajross wrote: post #458
argonaut wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "small" market for new sub-$20k vehicles includes: the Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra, Mazda 3, Nissan Sentra, Hyundai Kona, and Kia Soul, depending on options. Sometimes you can get a new base Civic for just under $20k. All of these are very popular cars. Basically the entire subcompact car or crossover segments (non-luxury), and most of the compact car segment (depending on options).

Of that list, only the Soul has a starting MSRP under $20k I believe, the others all have $20k as a floor. And I'm not saying that no one buys those cars, just that the market isn't large and that most new cars are significantly more expensive. This link puts the average (I couldn't find a median) at $41k, for example: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2021/01/07/new-car... So a bunch of EV's sitting 20-30% a…

All those cars sell for well under $20k after discounts and rebates. MSRP != average transaction price: you need to check the KBB value (and some of them also have an MSRP under $20k, like the Hyundai Elantra, Nissan Sentra, and most of the subcompact crossover segment).

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#468

Post by Dig1t »

hashkb wrote: post #427
nine_k wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But frankly, it's a light truck . It's contractor's vehicle, or farmer's, but it's hardly a commuter car. It may be reasonable for countryside, like a boat may be reasonable for seaside. Nevertheless, just googled it: --- People also ask: How much does a 2020 F-150 cost? From $28,745 2020 Ford F-150 / MSRP ---

It's a very light truck. Especially these days. Seems like a vanity vehicle mostly. If you're hauling you have a bigger truck, and if you're offroading you have a jeep or something. Nobody is using electric for anything that we'd relate to as "critical" or "high availability". In fact, there are trucks that just bring gasoline to bigger trucks. Source: I live at 8300ft in Colorado.

Personally, I drive an F-150 because I visit Home Depot quite a lot for home projects, take the kayaks down to the lake, and because just generally being able to haul things when I need to is enormously useful. It just seems to happen a lot in normal suburban life.

That said, I will definitely be trading up to a Cybertruck as soon as it’s available.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#469

Post by kingsuper20 »

hahajk wrote: post #363
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best-selling[1] vehicle in America, the Ford F-150, had an average sale price of $47,174 in 2018[2]. I'm sure it's only gone up since. Also, the latest version of the map you shared shows the F-150 being the most popular vehicle in 18 states, none of which are California or New York: https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-in-america-2... --- [1] https://www.autobytel.com/ford/f-150/car-buying-guides/why-…

dang, $29k starting price and you don’t even get power windows? What happened to the F150??

It's something of a hotrod if you get the V8 in a regular cab shortbed.

'round these parts, a 4wd pickup is a pretty practical thing to own. I'd much rather own one than a Subaru.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#470

Post by boatsie »

cameldrv wrote: post #173
rsync wrote: post #142

Is it their electric car or is it their car, electric ? I don't want your electric car. I don't want your e-initiative i-mobile green-tech tron-car. I want one of your actual cars, just electric . I don't want an ID.4 - I just want a Passat. I don't want the polestar e-initiative i-concept - I just want a V90 wagon. I don't want a future space truck, I just want a Silverado - but electric. God. Dammit.

Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified. The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The a…

This is all completely orthogonal to the exterior styling and cladding. If you look at many of these electric vehicles, they have odd two-tone color schemes (eg i3), strange C pillars (Leaf, Prius, Bolt), and some twisted attempt by the designers to make them look “futuristic”.
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