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On Being an Outsider

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Re: On Being an Outsider

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

country is a red flag here. i don’t think there is a group of humans with a shared identity that is truly and completely welcoming to people outside of that identity. which is why i don’t enjoy making country a part of my identity.

I tend to feel the same. The concept of a "nation" seems to be at the source of many problems as the world shifts to globalism. It really only works by creating a divide between "them" and "us". It helps instilling a sense of belonging and a base level of trust in a group of people, but inevitably nationalism becomes a problem when people would like to move between these nations. The EU is actually trying very hard t…

I don't know of a single EU member state that its citizens consider to exist for less than 400 years. Europe focuses on nationalism unconnected to states (modern states were established after WW2 by historic national borders), and there is a strong culture of legal continuity - spanning 600+ years in most cases, 1200+ years in case of Czechia, around 1700 in case of Germany... the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the continuation of the Roman Empire itself (and legally it was!). Even if you can't see the state on old maps, there was a subordinated but sovereign enough duchy or principality, from which practically every modern EU member state derives its right to exist and be where it is.

Amusingly, Russia is one of, if not the youngest European state if we consider this kind of continuity.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to feel the same. The concept of a "nation" seems to be at the source of many problems as the world shifts to globalism. It really only works by creating a divide between "them" and "us". It helps instilling a sense of belonging and a base level of trust in a group of people, but inevitably nationalism becomes a problem when people would like to move between these nations. The EU is actually trying very hard t…

I don't know of a single EU member state that its citizens consider to exist for less than 400 years. Europe focuses on nationalism unconnected to states (modern states were established after WW2 by historic national borders), and there is a strong culture of legal continuity - spanning 600+ years in most cases, 1200+ years in case of Czechia, around 1700 in case of Germany... the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the…

Germany as we know it today developed in the 1800s and its borders have changed significantly since.

Prior to that it was a couple of kingdoms, each of which changed allegiance between the various middle-European empires many times, every time there was a war or someone noble married.

Parts of Germany were occupied over long stretches of time, e.g. by the Swedish, the French, more recently the British and Americans, every time leaving an impression in the culture.

Culture in various parts of Germany in diverse, most striking is the difference between Prussia and Bavaria.

Cultural development in Germany was regionally diverse and subject to huge outside influence all the time.

If there was legal continuity then it was because the whole of Europe was governed by the same bunch of emperor families since the fall of Rome.

But this was totally decoupled from culture.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all large German cities, Berlin is probably the most unwelcoming... or rather, the Berliners are. The typical Berliner seems to take a certain pride in being unfriendly and even hostile. Funny enough, I often found that they open up when one is unfriendly to them in return. Difficult though when one is not aware of the subtleties of the language. But to be fair, it's not just non-Germans who struggle with that asp…

> Of all large German cities, Berlin is probably the most unwelcoming You really think so? I was under the impression that Munich is the most unwelcoming city.

Oh yes, maybe equal first place in unwelcominglyness? ;)

Re: On Being an Outsider

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of a single EU member state that its citizens consider to exist for less than 400 years. Europe focuses on nationalism unconnected to states (modern states were established after WW2 by historic national borders), and there is a strong culture of legal continuity - spanning 600+ years in most cases, 1200+ years in case of Czechia, around 1700 in case of Germany... the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the…

Germany as we know it today developed in the 1800s and its borders have changed significantly since. Prior to that it was a couple of kingdoms, each of which changed allegiance between the various middle-European empires many times, every time there was a war or someone noble married. Parts of Germany were occupied over long stretches of time, e.g. by the Swedish, the French, more recently the British and Americans,…

[deleted]

Re: On Being an Outsider

#115

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

First, it is normal to question where your belong and how your multiple experience, background and culture integrated construct your identity and your feeling to belong somewhere. This somewhere can multiple and also everywhere but feeling to belong nowhere is mostly due to the peer pressure to self-identity to only one element of your identity (being your culture, your skin tone, your born country, etc.) that feels like restraining yourself as one tiny part of the multiple identities you carry and have constructed.

One essential essay that really helped me and can not stop to suggest is "In the Name of Identity: Violence and the Need to Belong" by Amin Maalouf [1][2] The original title in French is "Les identités meurtrières" translated as "the murderous identities".

If I may, you are belonging from everywhere that feels home in a way or the other. And the more abroad you'll be, the more home will take multiple dimensions and it's okay. When someone ask you, you can answer "India and Canada" and let's them deal with it, not you :).

With my partner, we cover the ground about the identity questions : me being a second-generation son of arab's parent in an UE country, her being, like you, from a east-asian country but living abroad for 5-6 years now. The question of home, identity and where we belong is common and the answers morph based on where and how we live.

For me is funny, because when I identify myself from the city I was born and raised in UE, I got question about my origins like it is the "correct answer" but if someone from that city hears me speaking, they can't doubt I am from here because I used a lot of the specific slang/dialect from there. It happened a few time ago where a old man helping my mom told that "I can hear you are from here". On the flip coin, I also speak the dialectal Arab from my parent region (albeit with a UE accent) so people speaking Arab can identify from which region/country I must come from. So most of the time, I answer both and let people ask the uncomfortable questions about their conception of identities and where I belong/from themself. But that does not mean that I have dealed with my identity myself, I am still constructing it and trying to gather the different pieces together and glue them, especially now that I am living in yet another country :)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Name_of_Identity

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Name-Identity-Violence-Need-Belong/dp...

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