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CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

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Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#91

Post by jrochkind1 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #47

I got confused as the same thing was reported in Oxford Astrozenica vaccine recipients. I wasn't sure if they're the same vaccine (they're not). So I read up a bit. The same sort of clots occur in people who have been given heparin (a blood thinner). It's even called "heparin induced" in people using heparin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-vaccination_embolic_and_t... People on either vaccine have been found to h…

Even the experts still don't know what could be causing these side effects, or why it would be similar between the two vaccines. However, when they want to investigate it, what they'll be looking at is that both the Astrozenica and J&J vaccines use adenovirus vaccine technology, and the Moderna and Pfizer do not, so there could be something in common there that leads to the side effects. I think people only have guesses they aren't super confident in as to what that could be at present.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#92

Post by cowmoo728 »

grej wrote: post #21

Both my wife and I got the J&J shot before it was cancelled. We both had a period about 12 hours afterwards where we felt like we had a mild flu for about another 12 hours, then it was over and we’ve felt fine. Very happy with this decision.

Another anecdote: I took the J&J vaccine and felt shitty and tired for 4 days. I generally react this way to the flu vaccine too, so I was expecting it. I didn't experience anything else unusual, and I would still take the J&J vaccine again given the choice. I'm now completely back to normal.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#93

Post by marvin »

mancerayder wrote: post #64
nickff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been some studies which demonstrated that experts gain credibility when they express uncertainty. Amateurs on the other hand lose credibility when they express uncertainty. I don't have a citation handy, but I thought you might find the perspective useful.

Does the citation include the recent major skepticism of Astra? There are French polls that backed major skepticism of Astra specifically after the pause. The downvotes are puzzling. Are people capable of countering with reason, or is a downvote a proxy vote for how they wish reality to be?

You should be wary of concluding stupidity when the French population are skeptical towards government statements. It's a completely different culture to the one you're likely used to. The French frequently have legitimate distrust towards their authorities, and assume based on experience that the government is lying.

This would be a confounding effect when trying to determine whether it was the uncertainty that caused the distrust, or the source of the statement.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#94

Post by rel2thr »

hcurtiss wrote: post #89
grej wrote: post #21

Both my wife and I got the J&J shot before it was cancelled. We both had a period about 12 hours afterwards where we felt like we had a mild flu for about another 12 hours, then it was over and we’ve felt fine. Very happy with this decision.

If we're doing anecdata, I too had the J&J shot right before it was cancelled. Literally no symptoms whatsoever. Very happy with the "one and done" relative to my wife who will go in next week for the second Pfizer shot, which has clobbered everyone else in our neighborhood who took it.

My anecdote is that I got the JJ and kinda regret it, this blood clot thing made me realize it’s pretty untested , I feel like they should be recommending everyone get a full panel blood test a week after to add more data. After the AZ issues there should have been more scrutiny of the early clot cases

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#95

Post by sxcurry »

nostromo wrote: post #66

Now maybe the US can finally approve the AstraZeneca vaccine and put our 20 million (!) doses on hand to good use. Or not! But if we’re not going to use them, we should send them to another country like Canada or Mexico or Australia or the UK or EU, all of which have approved it and administered millions of doses. Sitting on 10s of millions of vaccines during a pandemic is inexcusable.

Just a reminder that AstraZeneca has not applied yet to the FDA for emergency use authorization.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#96

Post by jollybean »

This is great, but a gigantic Public Communications disaster.

I had a vax-sceptic friend send me an article from a reputable source, quoting claims from the National Health Agencies and WHO etc. about the 'blood clots' which essentially conclude that 'they are rare and treatable' ... but my friends 'interpretation' was that the vax was 'unsafe'. She literally couldn't grasp that the data in the article was supposed to make her conclude it was 'safe'. She just read 'fear'.

40% of developed world people are either 'not very literate' or 'not paying attention' or have 'reading comprehension' problems whereing they are not going to engage with the material to derive conclusions.

While the public health agencies decisions are a little cautious, they are reasonable, but the 'communications' of it via random articles with bits of 'facts' is a complete disaster from a Public Communications perspective and is causing probably measurable harm.

If there is a 'marginal risk' of 4 in 1 million of 'blood clotting' and it's entirely treatable, then this information should be made available and transparent during the official conferences, but it should not be headline news.

Whenever material information is presented regarding concerns, they have to be contextualized, and if the conclusion is effectively 'the vax is perfectly safe, this is just an administrative thing' then this has to be repeated over and over.

From the FDA: "Out of every 10,000 women taking birth control pills, 3 to 9 of them will develop a blood clot".

That is about 100x greater than clotting from AstraZeneca Vaccine, and 10's of millions of American women are taking it daily. Now that's context.

Every single story about COVID needs to start and end with the 'Net reality facts' about vaccination, which as of today is: 'It's utterly safe, basically for everyone, and it will help stop the spread and keep other safe'.

When messaging critical information for the masses it needs to be simple, clear, consistent, repetitive, words need to be chosen very carefully, and assume you're dealing with a 'Grade 8' audience in terms of net comprehension/attention/understanding.

Almost all intelligent professionals live in bubbles, we tend to have no grasp of how it is out there for a large swath of the population.

Even public health agencies web-sites are overloaded with information, literally with critical information in 'downloadable PDFs' (???), it's not good, I hope we develop a new approach but I don't think we will.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#97

Post by [deleted] »

rel2thr wrote: post #94
hcurtiss wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're doing anecdata, I too had the J&J shot right before it was cancelled. Literally no symptoms whatsoever. Very happy with the "one and done" relative to my wife who will go in next week for the second Pfizer shot, which has clobbered everyone else in our neighborhood who took it.

My anecdote is that I got the JJ and kinda regret it, this blood clot thing made me realize it’s pretty untested , I feel like they should be recommending everyone get a full panel blood test a week after to add more data. After the AZ issues there should have been more scrutiny of the early clot cases

[deleted]

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#98

Post by maxerickson »

miked85 wrote: post #58
sjm wrote: post #5

Just makes sense. The benefits far outweigh the risks at six cases of blood clots out of over 6.8 million doses, especially when there's a high risk of blood clots following COVID-19 hospitalization. Not to mention rates of blood clots caused by the pill are more like 1 in 3000. Hopefully if anything the pause has shown anti-vax folks that the safety of these vaccines is being taken seriously.

I am not sure it is about "anti-vax" folks so much in this case. Many are wary of getting a vaccine with < year of testing, not to mention relatively new technology (mRNA). That isn't entirely unreasonable, though I did end up getting the Moderna shot.

There's not really extensive long term use of the viral vector vaccines either.

Like, there's an Ebola vaccine that was approved in the last couple years.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#99

Post by hammock »

_wldu wrote: post #77

I had Covid in March 2020. It almost did me in. Was in ICU for a while. Had the J&J shot three weeks ago. Did not feel a thing. My arm was slightly sore at injection site. Nothing else. I guess my body was used to it and just sort of shrugged it off. Some of my friends who got J&J were sick for a few days, but rebounded quickly after that.

What prompted you to get a vaccine when you have already developed immunity?

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#100

Post by _wldu »

hammock wrote: post #99
_wldu wrote: post #77

I had Covid in March 2020. It almost did me in. Was in ICU for a while. Had the J&J shot three weeks ago. Did not feel a thing. My arm was slightly sore at injection site. Nothing else. I guess my body was used to it and just sort of shrugged it off. Some of my friends who got J&J were sick for a few days, but rebounded quickly after that.

What prompted you to get a vaccine when you have already developed immunity?

Unspoken workplace requirement. Sort of peer pressure, too, I guess. Also, I did not want to make others (around me) uncomfortable.
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