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Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

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Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#192
Latency being time to first byte downloaded I’d still store this in cloud somewhere so that the really “hot” images/videos could be cached in a cloudfront CDN or something.

Also this is a startup, no? A million or so in storage so you need not preoccupy your startup with having to deal with failing disks, disk provisioning, collocation costs, etc. etc. not to mention the 11 9s of durability you get with S3, to me it just makes the most sense to do this on the cloud.

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#193
post #8

Backblaze B2, ingress and egress are free through Cloudflare, and it's S3 compatible. It's peanuts by comparison but I've been storing ~22TB on there for years and love it. Wasabi and Glacier would be my 2nd choices.

>Backblaze B2, ingress and egress are free through cloudflare AFAIK cloudflare ToS prohibits you from using it as a file hosting proxy. You might not run into issues if you're transferring a few gigabytes a month, but if you're transferring multiple terabytes it's just asking for trouble. edit: https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/ section 2.8 Limitation on Serving Non-HTML Content

OTOH I've been told (by CloudFlare support, in contact with their engineers) that for their "for hosting game levels and other content" use case[1], any of their ordinary plans should be fine.

I'm not... super confident in that answer, because despite that being a use case they promote on the site the terms seem a bit murkier, and the page on that use-case doesn't say much about which plan(s) they expect you to use (I'd have expected an "enterprise" plan for serving hundreds of TB of transfer of game-assets per month, but they said no, any normal plan's fine, which... I was up front with them about what our usage would look like, and they held that line, but that seems too good to be true).

I haven't tested these claims yet.

[1] https://www.cloudflare.com/gaming/

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#194
My only comment is that I have a hard time reconciling these two statements:

> downloaded in the background to a mobile phone

and

> but less than 1000ms required

I'm struggling to think of what kind of application needs data access in the background with latency of less than 1000ms. That would normally be for interactive use of some kind.

Getting to 1 min access time would get you into the S3 glacier territory ... you will obviously have considered this but I feel like some really hard scrutiny on requirements could be critical here. With intelligent tiering and smart software you might make a near order of magnitude difference in cost and lose almost no user-perceptible functionality.

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#195
post #90

Non-cloud: HPE sells their Apollo 4000[^1] line, which takes 60x3.5" drives - with 16TB drives, that's 960TB each machine, one rack of 10 of these is 9PB+ therefore, which nearly covers your 10PB needs. (We have some racks like this). They are not cheap. (Note: Quanta makes servers that can take 108x3.5" drive, but they need special deep racks.) The problem here would be the "filesystem" (read: the distributed servic…

Don't buy HPE gear. Qualify the gear with sample units from a few competing vendors and you'll see why.

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#196
There are four hidden costs which not many have touched upon.

1) Staff You'll need at least one, maybe two, to build, operate, and maintain any self-hosted solution. A quick peek on Glassdoor and Salary show the unloaded salary for a Storage Engineer runs $92,000-130,000 US. Multiply by 1.25-1.4 for loaded cost of an employee (things like FICA, insurance, laptop, facilities, etc). Storage Administrators run lower, but still around $70K US unloaded. Point is, you'll be paying around $100K+/year per storage staff position.

2) Facilities (HVAC, electrical, floor loading, etc) If you host on-site (not hosting facility), you'd better make certain your physical facilities can handle it. Can your HVAC handle the cooling, or will you need to upgrade it? What about your electrical? Can you get the increased electrical in your area? How much will your UPS and generator cost? Can the physical structure of the building (floor loading, etc) handle the weight of racks and hundreds of drives, the vibration of mechanical drives, the air cycling?

3) Disaster Recovery/Business Continuity Since you're using S3 One Zone IA, you have no multi-zone duplicated redundancy. It's use case is for secondary backup storage for data, not the primary data store for running a startup. When there is an outage/failure (and it will happen), the startup may be toast, and investors none too happy. So this is another expense you're going to have to seriously consider, whether you stick with S3 or roll-your-own.

4) Cost of money With rolling-your-own, you're going to be doing CAPEX and OPEX. How much upfront and ongoing CAPEX can the startup handle? Would the depreciation on storage assets be helpful financially? You really need to talk to the CPA/finance person before this. There may be better tax and financial benefits by staying on S3 (OPEX). Or not.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#197
I’d go with Ceph and dedicated hardware. Something like Hetzner or Datapacket, or built it yourself and go big with something like SoftIron. We’ve built and maintain a number of these types of clusters - using S3 compatible APIs (CephObjectStore). SoftIron is probably overkill but good lord is it fun to play with that much thruput!

If you’re looking for a partner/consultant to get things going, feel free to reach out! This stuff is sort of our wheelhouse, as me and my co-founder were previously Ops at Imgur, you can imagine the kinds of image hosting problems we’ve seen :P

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#198
Have you tried backblaze b2 storage? Requires more work client-side but is around 1/4 to 1/5 the price.

The only issue is whether or not you have a CDN in front of this data. If you do then backblaze might not be much cheaper than S3->Cloudfront. You'd save storage costs but easily exceed those savings in egress.

Re: Ask HN: How would you store 10PB of data for your startup today?

#199
Have you considered deleting most of it?

Chances are you don't need all of it. Every company today thinks they need "Big Data" to do their theoretical magic machine learning, but most of them are wrong. Hoarding petabytes of worthless data doesn't make you Facebook.

To be a little less glib, I'd start by auditing how much of that 10PB actually matters to anyone.

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