Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 232 posts

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#11

Post by passivate »

barbazoo wrote: post #8
sjm wrote: post #5

Just makes sense. The benefits far outweigh the risks at six cases of blood clots out of over 6.8 million doses, especially when there's a high risk of blood clots following COVID-19 hospitalization. Not to mention rates of blood clots caused by the pill are more like 1 in 3000. Hopefully if anything the pause has shown anti-vax folks that the safety of these vaccines is being taken seriously.

I agree with you that the risk of getting Covid-19 far outweigh the risk of blood clots associated with some vaccines, however, I've read this comparison with birth control related blood clots many times and it just doesn't seem to be comparable. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-comparing-blood-clot-r... > Indeed, government health officials are investigating a type of blood clot called a cerebral venous sinus t…

There is the potential for (rare) harmful side-effects from taking many pharmaceuticals. Its all the stuff that they speak at 2x speed after the ad. People (especially the media) are understandably hyper-focused on COVID.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#12

Post by joshgachnang »

passivate wrote: post #9

This is great news! I'm holding out for the J&J shot myself :) I find it to be a better product than the others.

Can you explain why you think it's a better product? Genuinely curious as I haven't done much comparison myself.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#13

Post by andrew_v4 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #3

Excellent news. The unfortunate thing is the level of ignorance today mistakes a very careful effort make sure the vaccine is safe with a wanton ignoring of some danger. Beyond talking about the fact that they determined this was safe, at some point educating people on danger in statistical terms is going to be necessary. But I'm not sure how that happens - addiction to headline-logic and single-heart-pulling-events…

I think it's a direct consequence of media and government trying to remove free will from the equation and present taking the vaccine as the only choice people have. If you're going to essentially force people to do it, a statistically meaningless side-effect becomes more important as reason for people to push back (and the media to drum up false fears).

If you treat people like adults and let them consult their doctors and make their own decisions, the bar is much lower for safety (by lower I mean from impossibly high to reasonable). People willingly take much more risky medicines and treatments all the time and are fine with it. But if you try and force something in them, it's not surprising they push back on anything that isn't guaranteed to be perfect.

(So my point is, I think demand would be higher and concerns lower if you just made it available and let people make their own choice. But the whole pandemic has been more about forcing people to do things than about trying to do things that actually solve the problem)

[Edit- it's funny how any presence of giving people control over their bodies evaporates in a situation like this. And re the strawman that "nobody is forcing you" - if the consequence is severe limits on what you are allowed to do, that doesnt really hold up]

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#14

Post by neither_color »

passivate wrote: post #9

This is great news! I'm holding out for the J&J shot myself :) I find it to be a better product than the others.

I was holding out too but the opportunity to get Pfizer part 1 came up this week and I figured "this indefinite suspension could take months might as well get this out of the way now." Oh well. Im always wrong about these things. Either way in three more weeks I'll be done doing the "needful."

No side effects for me besides my arm sore to the touch the day after, but not painful. Similar to the day after a weightlifting workout.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#15

Post by passivate »

Sebguer wrote: post #6
sjm wrote: post #5

Just makes sense. The benefits far outweigh the risks at six cases of blood clots out of over 6.8 million doses, especially when there's a high risk of blood clots following COVID-19 hospitalization. Not to mention rates of blood clots caused by the pill are more like 1 in 3000. Hopefully if anything the pause has shown anti-vax folks that the safety of these vaccines is being taken seriously.

>Hopefully if anything the pause has shown anti-vax folks that the safety of these vaccines is being taken seriously. The vast majority of skeptics will not be convinced by this, because their skepticism is not rooted in the science.

I think it should fall under basic common sense, not science. In reality, only a handful of people in the world understand in detail all the intricacies of the various ways our body interacts with drug substances. This group varies based on the drug in question.

The rest of us are just parroting them. Yes you can try to be informed and read-up but at the end of the day they're still a layperson.

I work in biotech (vaccines), and outside of my little niche, I'm just your average lay person, just slightly more informed.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#16

Post by jdavis703 »

andrew_v4 wrote: post #13
joe_the_user wrote: post #3

Excellent news. The unfortunate thing is the level of ignorance today mistakes a very careful effort make sure the vaccine is safe with a wanton ignoring of some danger. Beyond talking about the fact that they determined this was safe, at some point educating people on danger in statistical terms is going to be necessary. But I'm not sure how that happens - addiction to headline-logic and single-heart-pulling-events…

I think it's a direct consequence of media and government trying to remove free will from the equation and present taking the vaccine as the only choice people have. If you're going to essentially force people to do it, a statistically meaningless side-effect becomes more important as reason for people to push back (and the media to drum up false fears). If you treat people like adults and let them consult their doct…

No one is being forced to take vaccines. It’s already announced there will be no federal vaccine passport, and many states are banning passports.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#17

Post by jonplackett »

joe_the_user wrote: post #3

Excellent news. The unfortunate thing is the level of ignorance today mistakes a very careful effort make sure the vaccine is safe with a wanton ignoring of some danger. Beyond talking about the fact that they determined this was safe, at some point educating people on danger in statistical terms is going to be necessary. But I'm not sure how that happens - addiction to headline-logic and single-heart-pulling-events…

I made a website recently to try and do what I think you're talking about.

http://whatoneinamillionmeans.com

The idea is to compare the risk of death from the AZ vaccine from blood clots (1 in a million so far) with the risks we take all the time without worrying.

For there J+J vaccine, it's also a 1 in a million risk, but just of getting the clots, not dying.

The point is to show the fallacy of comparing the risk of the vaccine with a perceived current zero risk - you are not at zero risk ever, there's a base-risk we as society and individuals have decided we are OK with, because without it we can't even get out of bed in the morning, let alone get into a car or do anything else interesting, and the risk from these vaccines is a lot lower than that.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#18

Post by option »

jdavis703 wrote: post #16
andrew_v4 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a direct consequence of media and government trying to remove free will from the equation and present taking the vaccine as the only choice people have. If you're going to essentially force people to do it, a statistically meaningless side-effect becomes more important as reason for people to push back (and the media to drum up false fears). If you treat people like adults and let them consult their doct…

No one is being forced to take vaccines. It’s already announced there will be no federal vaccine passport, and many states are banning passports.

at least here, in California, you can not chose which one you get when making the appointment or when arriving at the vaccination site. Also CSU and UC will require vaccinations for return to on-campus. (Though I'm not sure that they will be able to do so until vaccines are under "emergency use" authorization, not a regular one)

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#19

Post by aaronbrethorst »

neither_color wrote: post #14
passivate wrote: post #9

This is great news! I'm holding out for the J&J shot myself :) I find it to be a better product than the others.

I was holding out too but the opportunity to get Pfizer part 1 came up this week and I figured "this indefinite suspension could take months might as well get this out of the way now." Oh well. Im always wrong about these things. Either way in three more weeks I'll be done doing the "needful." No side effects for me besides my arm sore to the touch the day after, but not painful. Similar to the day after a weightlift…

Same for me on Monday. Oh well.

Re: CDC panel recommends resuming use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine

#20

Post by elliekelly »

andrew_v4 wrote: post #13
joe_the_user wrote: post #3

Excellent news. The unfortunate thing is the level of ignorance today mistakes a very careful effort make sure the vaccine is safe with a wanton ignoring of some danger. Beyond talking about the fact that they determined this was safe, at some point educating people on danger in statistical terms is going to be necessary. But I'm not sure how that happens - addiction to headline-logic and single-heart-pulling-events…

I think it's a direct consequence of media and government trying to remove free will from the equation and present taking the vaccine as the only choice people have. If you're going to essentially force people to do it, a statistically meaningless side-effect becomes more important as reason for people to push back (and the media to drum up false fears). If you treat people like adults and let them consult their doct…

> So my point is, I think demand would be higher and concerns lower if you just made it available and let people make their own choice.

That's already how it works, though. Everyone is free to decide for themselves whether or not they'd like to be vaccinated.

Post reply on HN