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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#291

Post by wishysgb »

rconti wrote: post #243

I've been following the id.4 release with moderate interest. I previously had a 2016 Golf R 6 speed manual, and now have a 2018 Tesla Model 3. IMO, the VW is just too expensive. Now, if you're getting the tax credit on the VW, and of course can't get it on a Tesla anymore, that makes the difference. But without the credit, the id4 is virtually the price of an AWD Model Y. For a vehicle that doesn't have AWD, has a to…

well my sister is looking at it for 29k after incentives that is a lot less than Model 3 or Y

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#292

Post by imtringued »

Already__Taken wrote: post #92
foepys wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

How many of these places drive 2021 model cars right now?

Probably none, and most of them can't even afford a used car with AWD. Every time I hear about Americans buying offroad cars as a status symbol I think of people in Cameroon getting stuck in the muddiest dirt roads on the planet with their Golf 3.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#293

Post by frosted-flakes »

rsync wrote: post #272
Hamuko wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do actually want the Polestar 1, since it's drop dead gorgeous. Unfortunately it's a very limited run hybrid car that costs as much as my apartment. Also weirdly Polestar is also falling into this EV design pitfall. They release a petrol car and it's gorgeous. Then they release an EV and it's misproportioned and ugly.

Polestar 1 is , indeed, Beautiful. However it is not an electric car.

It definitely is. It's a plug-in hybrid.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#294

Post by robryan »

ajross wrote: post #69
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Actually the market for new sub-$20k vehicles is quite small. Most people with budget concerns buy used. The median new passenger vehicle is something like a $40k minivan or pickup. So these EVs really aren't very far off the mark financially.

Are those EVs that are going to become decent sub $20k buys at say 5 years old even in existence yet? Even if they are there aren’t enough of them being sold new yet.

I seems to me probably another 5 years to get enough volume in solid lower end EVs that are bought in quantity and have a decent lifespan. Then another 5 years for them to filter down to the used market with decent prices.

I bought a 2017 Golf last year for around $15k. In Australia the only thing you can get electric wise at that price point would be a 2013 or so leaf with 100km range, and even then there is basically no supply.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#295

Post by aaronbrethorst »

jacquesm wrote: post #284
hourislate wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in DFW also and you are correct. I'd take a guess that 80% of F150 owners live in a quiet suburban neighborhood and have never used the truck bed. What really is insane is the folks like a neighbor down the street who has an F250 Diesel Monster truck that has never seen any off road action except the time he drove on his grass backing out of the driveway. Same with all the Jeeps with oversized tires and 12k in…

> like all the old farts buying Harley's and pretending they are some kind of bikers...shame they destroyed the brand Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product. Without those people they'd have died long ago.

Sounds kind of like Leica to me: orthodontists running around Africa or Asia pretending to be Steve McCurry with $11,000 'Safari' cameras destroyed the brand for me. Yeah, sure, the company is still technically alive, but at what cost?

(and lest you think I'm joking: https://www.dpreview.com/news/9864312105/leica-releases-limi...)

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#296

Post by acomjean »

cjohansson wrote: post #260
fassssst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I had a ID.4 pre-ordered but canceled it after I realized how absurd the price is. I bought a utility e-bike instead and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I barely use my car anymore and biking is way more fun and greener than any car.

Regular bikes have the benefit that they improve your health, it's not exhaustive once you get a better stamina. E-bikes are a bad product I think in todays society

I have switched from a normal bike to an ebike. My yearly mileage went from 1000 to 1800. I still use my old non powered bike for short trips.

I’ll use the ebike when I’m tired so I end up using it a lot more.

You can turn them off the power then your riding around with 30 extra pounds if you need more workout...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#297

Post by dreamcompiler »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

> From what I understand batteries remain the lion's share of an electric vehicle's total production cost (I've heard as much as $16K/vehicle).

I've seen this same figure for current EVs. But it's important to look at the trend. Lithium-ion battery prices have decreased by 97% since their introduction in 1991. The price decrease curve is amazing [0]. Teslas were at least $80K in 2015; today a Tesla with similar range (Model 3) can be had for $40K. That decrease is largely the result of Tesla and Panasonic improving battery energy density and battery production economies of scale. There is every reason to believe this trend will continue, especially if solid-state batteries can be scaled up.

As for rare-earth metals, cobalt is the worst one w.r.t. rarity and human labor. Tesla's next generation of batteries (starting in late 2021) eliminate cobalt and substitute nickel and manganese, which are far more plentiful and don't require child labor.

Not trying to sanctify Tesla here; I just follow them more closely than other battery manufacturers. The others are probably working toward similar goals.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE0...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#298

Post by flabbergasted »

freeflight wrote: post #230
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. With an EV you can start each day fully charged. You just need enough battery to handle your daily commute and the few errands. What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle.

> What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised if rental battery trailers become a big thing due to that. When using the EV for every-day stuff the internal batteries will be enough. Going on a long trip? Add a battery trailer for more range and extra ca…

I wouldn't be surprised if UHaul started this as a service. Seems like a perfect fit to me.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#300

Post by PragmaticPulp »

holoduke wrote: post #285
foepys wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying cars for $20,000 are generally not people who can invest twice upfront for lower maintenance costs over the next ten years. Being poor (relatively speaking) is expensive, especially when you are financing.

I an in a fortunate position to earn much more than a average salary. Yet our family car is a 2005 10k infinity fx35. Car is reliable and modern enough. A perfect fit for my family of 4. I considered buying a 80k Tesla model X, but went for a 15 year old Ferrari f430 (same price). Still have the practically and a lot of extra fun. I never understood why people would buy a car younger than 15 years old.

> I never understood why people would buy a car younger than 15 years old.

15 years typically translates to 180K - 200K miles for average use cases.

15 year old cars are generally not in great shape. Finding low mileage, well-maintained unicorns is not as easy as it sounds.

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