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Why Lichess will always be free

lichess.org

411–420 of 477 posts

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have the right to control what code is delivered to (downloaded) and run on my computer. That doesn't mean I have the right to use a website that decides they aren't good with me doing so without the ads or other portions I may block. I don't believe I have any moral obligation to make that choice myself. Simply put, I have the right to block ads, and the website has the right to block usage to me i…

> Simply put, I have the right to block ads Let’s assume I agree that you have been tricked into following a link that is infested with terrible ads and that I agree you have the right to block those ads. Isn’t it then your obligation to never visit that site again? You understand that ads are how the website has chosen to make money. You don’t like how they have chosen to make money so you simply never visit the web…

No, how a website monetizes their site is not my concern. Just because they choose ads does not obligate me to decide to not go there again. In fact, due to my technology choices, I may never even realize they have chosen that route as I may never see their ads in the first place.

As a publicly available resource, it is like browsing. I can browse many brick and mortar stores without exchanging anything of value. And like a store, if a website decided they did not want people browsing without a purchase, they could block access.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#412
post #190

Lichess is truly on a class of its own. It delivers a better service than any of it’s alternatives (in my opinion), and it’s actually 100% free with no BS. Funny enough, I’ve donated around $30 in total which is $30 more than I would’ve ever thought of spending on a chess site. Hats off to thibault and the open source community for creating such a wonderful gem.

I donate a tiny $5 a month. Not bad for a service I use everyday. Another way to help is to host an analysis server[0]. I give them one core of my old i3-5100. It’s easy to setup, and I like knowing that it’s chugging away 24/7. [0] https://github.com/niklasf/fishnet

Donate annually or one lifetime gift do the money goes to the recipient instead of the finance industry.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi dang, thank you for taking the time to point that out. I think you are touching on something that's important to understand and overcome. I realized that my wording was poor as I thought more about my comment and you are correct to call me out. I'll try to be as honest/open/guidelined in my response as possible to bare fruit from an aggressive comment. While it might be true that the demographics of the site are 1…

I think part of what dang was saying is that there is generally no need to characterize the motivations and beliefs of your fellow posters. Your comment would have been fine without that. Meta discussion about the community itself can be valuable. But this post is about lichess and the merits of ad driven revenue models. It's also worth saying that most of the people here are developers, academics and general nerds.…

I'll try to keep my reply short.

I read a lot of the conversation here every day and I've read a lot of the statements from the current leadership of YCombinator. And I think it's a gross attempt to undermine the discussion by asserting that I must not read anything because I could only be so wrong if that were true.

While I understand your comment that HN is a diverse site, and you are very correct there, I am not trying to make all of HN my opponent in this debate. I'm very plainly, although maybe I did poorly, hoping to make an opponent of a specific -- and in my opinion very common -- mindset on HN. With the goal of deconstructing it and ideally maybe even dismantling it.

To that end, I don't agree at all the YC leadership is doing a meaningful job of actually addressing sustainability via their practices as a business. I have read the words that you're referring to, which IMO are aimed at discussing sustainability. However, their practices are in direct opposition to those ideas. The startups they fund, the businesses they push to IPOs, and the monologues that they write on their blogs are far-more-often-than-not geared toward one goal: making money and expanding YC and the reach of tech related businesses, IMO without much regard for the impact it has on the world. I recognize that this is an opinion, and you pretty obviously aren't sympathetic to it, but it's fairly empirical in terms of substantive projects that YC has pushed hardest financially/philosophically. It's also empirical in terms of the replies on major posts, particularly the entrepreneurial ones.

And because you've implied this is off topic on a post about lichess, I should also clarify: I see the goals and accomplishments of lichess to be worth even more when juxtaposed against these YC culture. Especially knowing that someone like ornicar faced a very real choice when deciding to pursue lichess as his primary endeavor. I think he deserves to be applauded not only on his own, but also in that context. I also think it's no coincidence he is from France. Les français sont beaucoup plus à l'aise dans l'idéalisme, il me semble.... surtout par rapport aux américains. Mais pourtant ça sert aussi à créer son propre ensemble de "problèmes uniquement français"

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#414
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi dang, thank you for taking the time to point that out. I think you are touching on something that's important to understand and overcome. I realized that my wording was poor as I thought more about my comment and you are correct to call me out. I'll try to be as honest/open/guidelined in my response as possible to bare fruit from an aggressive comment. While it might be true that the demographics of the site are 1…

Sure, HN has subgroups like FOSS-ers and startup-ers (I think those are fair names). Another I'd mention are the internet mavens, the connoisseurs of online communities who think a lot about them and know about their history. I think the boostrapping/indiehacker subgroup is distinct from all of these again. And there are others. All are welcome. > I know that this is pretty close to an ideological battle. But I hope…

Thanks for the link, I'll read it this evening.

I appreciate the correction of primary, I agree it's an unnecessary broad characterization. I also understand your concern with the "distancing" you're referring to, however:

I think there's a subtle line between being willing to engage with someone the way you speak of and tolerating behavior that is socially toxic. If there's something I feel like has been learned over the last 30 years, it's that some portion of the population (the term "privileged" is often used here) are enabled by society to be deaf in their actions and the impacts of those actions on others. Whether the "privilege" causing their deafness be power that is rooted in money, race, or simply being member of a majority in some sense... the impact is the same. They need to be hit over the head with the mirror of what they are creating and, yes, sometimes that action is a bit emotionally violent. Or, in your language, sometimes that requires creating a characterization/image of their actions which can sometimes look similar to what you are calling distancing. I think the unfortunate simple difference between being unnecessarily divisive in your commentary (which I think is a summary of what you're asserting I've done) and calling people out for their bad behavior... is simply whether your characterization of their behavior is accurate or not. I hope I'm being fair and accurate and I think you've done a good job in pointing out the ways I was not.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#415

If Lichess is a French Charitable Association, why do its (very clear) terms say that we agree to follow the laws of England and Wales? https://lichess.org/terms-of-service This seems rather an odd arrangement. Does anyone have any insight here?

Because English contract law has a reputation for reliability, thanks to the common law doctrine of stare decisis, which binds courts to decide the same way as previous cases with the same facts were decided (modulo appeals courts). French law, by contrast, gives much more freedom to judges to decide each case individually, which sounds nice in theory, but in practice just creates legal uncertainty for everyone invol…

Is this a standard arrangement, then?

Is it usual for French organisations to apply English law?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#416
They'll never get to unicorn status with that attitude.

Heck, they have no moat! Anyone can just walk in, use their source code, and set up their own free chess site!

I'm sure this is all great for chess lovers and the game of chess as a whole, but what about all of the investors who will never have the thrill of a 10% IPO pop?

It just seems kind of selfish to make such an amazing site and then not try to cash in on all that value.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A way to have more people like Thibault is to make it so the cost of living is extremely cheap, if not totally guaranteed. A society creates its people.

Yeah, a Portland or Berlin where one can retire young with low cost of living and do cool stuff...

/s ?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a Portland or Berlin where one can retire young with low cost of living and do cool stuff...

/s ?

As someone living in Portland metro right now, either it's /s or misinformed. Portland hasn't been cheap since maybe 2010, maybe earlier depending on your definition. It may be cheaper than San Francisco, but certainly not cheap.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)! It started in 1995 I think. I started there too about 2007. It's still going, I visited a few months ago. A bit sleepier than it was. That was the place to follow the moves of live tournaments and discuss the games, before the age of live video broadcasts of tournaments. I loved it so much. Channel 23 was for quacking only etc hehe. Also I mainly played slower games…

Yes. I mostly played 2 12. The place felt like IRC for chess, you had to type commands like 'seek 2 12' for a new game and you needed some desktop client like winboard/xboard to play. Edit: Just played a game, my ID was still active and my last game was in 2012!

hehe nice. Yes, FICS is for life. Oh, you didn't use a client?! Mainly I used BabasChess (Windows), which was awesome, I've still never had such a good chess game seeking and playing experience on any site.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#420

Thibault Duplessis is actually an ex co-worker of mine, and this guy is truly impressive. Not only he is a very talented developer, he really sticks to his beliefs and made what Lichess is today. He used to take up a job for a year or so, save money, and travel the world for a year or so until money runs out. Then he would come back to France and take up a new job. All working on Lichess during his free time. For a f…

A way to have more people like Thibault is to make it so the cost of living is extremely cheap, if not totally guaranteed. A society creates its people.

I do agree, but most people want a lot of money. They might say they just want some protein in their noodles, but deep down they are a Zuck.

It seems like every financially successful developer out there came from a middle/upper class enviornment.

Once they smell money, it's always more, more, and more. If the get big enough they blame it on their shareholders?

Guys like Thibault are a different breed. They are rare. I have a feeling his payoff will be huge in the future, and it will be a combination of respect, and a fulfilled guilt free life.

I don't feel like arguing. Their must be few Horatio Algers out there banging away, and just want a comfortable life. It just seems like most people that's never ever enough once they get the whiff of financial opportunity. I truly believe Zuckerburg could have had a legitimate shot at running for president if it wasn't for greed. (He pondered running a few years ago with calculated photo op trips to the midwest.)

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