Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#231

Post by bananabreakfast » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #68

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

That's probably because car manufacturers are not making electric cars to traverse the jungle. That is an extremely niche use case compared to the global car driving population and a straw-man argument.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#232

Post by Tagbert » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

kingsuper20 wrote: post #141

foepys wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

It would be interesting to see an EV design that's appropriate for the Third World.

Look at some of the Chinese market cars. They are much closer to what you are thinking of.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#233

Post by bananabreakfast » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

agloeregrets wrote: post #95

foepys wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be ha…

Yup! Plus in the US the majority of all cars are not parked in a garage or driveway. How do those charge?

Chargers are installed in parking lots everywhere. Just because you haven't noticed them doesn't mean they aren't there.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#234

Post by selimthegrim » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

hodgesrm wrote: post #103

jackson1442 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious... are you in the US? 350 miles is definitely within the realm of reason here-- a couple friends and I made an impulsive 250-something mile trip a couple weeks ago, and my family took a road trip to Florida over the past summer (normally we'd fly, but COVID)-- that trip was actually in an electric car and ended up being about 4 hours longer than it would be in a gas car. Depending on where you are, 350 mi…

Actually not even half way, depending on origin and direction of travel. IIRC highway I-10 starts around milepost 810 on the Texas/Louisiana border. It's a big state. Off-topic but Texan inhabitants I know used to measure the length of the drives in number of beers consumed en route. Austin to Waco was a comparatively modest 5 beer trip, for example.

880 not 810. And surely given TX open container laws applying to a six pack even then they’d shotgun the sixth

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#235

Post by aaronbrethorst » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

s0rce wrote: post #115

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best-selling[1] vehicle in America, the Ford F-150, had an average sale price of $47,174 in 2018[2]. I'm sure it's only gone up since. Also, the latest version of the map you shared shows the F-150 being the most popular vehicle in 18 states, none of which are California or New York: https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-in-america-2... --- [1] https://www.autobytel.com/ford/f-150/car-buying-guides/why-…

Could most of those be base model work trucks with the average price heavily skewed by the luxury pickup market.

According to AutoWeek, who I expect knows of what it speaks,

"The most popular model [of the Ford F-150] is the SuperCrew XLT with the 302A package...That pickup, upgraded to 4X4 and the 6.5 foot bed, comes out to $50,020."

https://www.autoweek.com/news/trucks/a33584476/this-is-how-y...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#236

Post by geoelectric » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #222

mikestew wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, oh, I can answer this, given ownership of a ten year old Leaf ($35K) and a fifteen year old Scion xB/rebadged Toyota Echo ($20K): the $20K car is still going to win in TCO. Because the Leaf already starts out $15K in the hole. That's a lot of oil and coolant changes. That's a lot of brake pads. And those are pretty much the three things an ICE needs done versus BEV. After 100K miles, the Scion needed a $1500 clut…

You left out the very important and difference making cost of gasoline. Which over 10 years of driving would more than make up the difference in cost.

That may depend on where you live, and what your electricity consumption already is. In CA, for example, with our tiered billing and PG&E's award-winning business practices, it's pretty easy for an electric car to rack up quite an energy bill. If you were already using electricity up to the top of your tier, the add for the car will be at $$$ rate.

So they also have non-tiered plans for electric car owners but those are time of use. If you use them at peak for whatever reason, $$$ again. It's a little tricky.

It won't be as expensive as liquid fuel, to be sure, but the savings over time might not be as high as you'd expect. Offsetting with solar seems to be the popular option around San Jose, where homeowners tend to be particularly affluent.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#237

Post by kingsuper20 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #106

admax88q wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If, OTOH you are able to switch to a mindset where you keep your energy status in the back of your mind (and an EV car helps you with this a great deal) then you might be ready. Honestly that's a huge turn off for me. I have enough things on the back of my mind, tracking my "energy status" would have a significant opportunity cost by displacing more productive things.

Understandable, but with governments banning new combustion vehicle sales, the electric transition and need to shift how vehicles are used will occur eventually. I don't think EVs will reach the exact UX of combustion vehicles, nor do they have to (most charging can occur at home at night, people rarely road trip and need to charge from 0 to 100 SOC in 5 minutes), but people will have to be accepting that the experie…

I'm currently assuming that the inertia is towards EVs. Apply enough engineering money and economy of scale and it becomes more and more reasonable.

Honestly, that's the only type of new car I would buy at this point. I think we are hitting peak ICE complexity at this point and would just as soon not be involved with the mechanical magic that's been introduced to achieve that last bit of marginal improvement with emissions or mileage.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#238

Post by brianwawok » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #126

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

The Volkswagon ID.4 will be, after the $7,500 credit, in the low 30's. Still not cheap but much better than any other similarly spec'ed vehicle.

And consider it saving 10k in gas over 5-6 years, it's pretty close to Honda Civic price parity. Maybe not 100% there, but getting close!

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#239

Post by clouddrover » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #163

dahfizz wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A base tesla model3 is cheaper than a base ID.4. It does look like the ID.4 will be cheaper after the tax credits, but not dramatically so.

Right but the model 3 is a sedan while the ID.4 is a compact SUV. Size wise this vehicle is more on par with the Tesla Model Y, not the 3.

The ID.4 is similar in size to the Model Y. Diagrams and examples:

- https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/VW-ID...

- https://i.redd.it/x56klavmjmu61.jpg

- https://imgur.com/kSmwxah

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#240

Post by closeparen » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #227

bognition wrote: post #177

Here is a great no frills review of the ID.4 https://youtu.be/3oC9sUiwyL8 The TL;DR is even if its electric its not a serious competitor to tesla. The UI is terrible as the drive is unable to find a charger while navigating to their destination. Electric car charging stations are going to look completely different the gas stations as they costs a few thousand dollars to install rather than a cool million for a gas st…

I just bought (co-bought) a Model Y, and and the Supercharger network meant that other electric cars were non-starters. Hyundai and Kia, for example, have Model Y competitors, but when I was looking at them, both directed would-be buyers to PlugShare.com for for non-local charging information: I invite anyone to look at that solution, and then look at the Supercharger solution. I also live in an apartment building, a…

Are they going to install chargers in the assigned spaces of all the tenants who want them, or a couple of communal chargers for tenants to fight over? Having to go back out to the parking lot every couple of hours to see if the charger is free, move your car onto it, or move your car off of it, is right down the middle of "range anxiety."