Get better at Googling • Hacker News Board

Re: Get better at Googling

#141

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

I go for the man page first, then to a book on the language, then to the web. I work with many people (who are by far my senior) who never never check man pages and never search the web but go around bugging others for very simple things. Just this week I was asked how to find and replace text in a document and told to email them instructions.

This can be rephrased more generally: Effectively utilizing available sources of information is one of the most important skills for every engineer.

Re: Get better at Googling

#142

Post by bvogelzang » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

While not nearly as discoverable or convenient there is some google UI built around a few of these.

1. Click the "Tools" link just under the search button and you get options for restricting your search to a specific time range and making it an exact match.

2. If a term isn't included in a result sometimes Google will show "Missing: ‎| Must include: " just under the entry

Re: Get better at Googling

#143

Post by skeeter2020 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

Googling used to be a developer super power but I don't think it is any longer. We've seen massive consolidation in the sources of information and google focuses on them, so (a) everyone can find the same answers with pretty vague queries, and (b) your odds of finding "that hidden gem" because you used a highly optimized query are dramatically lower.

In the aggregate this is probably a good thing, but from one former google-strong developer it's diminished my competitive advantage.

Re: Get better at Googling

#144

Post by Ygg2 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

net_greybeard wrote: post #133

lostcolony wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just read the docs" depends on how good the docs are, and how discoverable they are. For instance, searching for "Java read a file", I find a bunch of examples. And they mostly are good enough, call out when they aren't, and provide useful links. Meanwhile, navigating Oracle's website is a nightmare. https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/io/file.ht... exists, and is actually pretty helpful, but the only…

Obviously. If the docs are garbage then you are going to have to find alternatives. However these days devs have never had it better.

Laughs in shitty Oracle docs.

Re: Get better at Googling

#145

Post by t-writescode » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

yepthatsreality wrote: post #112

t-writescode wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you find the docs? Do you just keep a giant list of bookmarks for every project and sdk you might use? Or, do you Google the docs?

Yes I keep bookmarks or often document the links in my brief of the project. Or I've used the links so much I know the site path to get to a doc. You're trying to find a hole in my logic, but you're ignoring what I'm saying: Searching the web isn't an important skill, just as going to the library to research isn't an important skill. The skill is reading, research, and organizing research itself. Google just makes it…

> You're trying to find a hole in my logic, but you're ignoring what I'm saying

I think you're ignoring what everyone else is saying and that is that Googling is not about Googling, it's just a tool for researching. It's not all about Googling some random blog post about how to manage cache invalidation, it's shorthand of knowing how to use search engines to get you to the right page, documentation, scholarly article or yes, random blog, about cache invalidation.

Re: Get better at Googling

#146

Post by niels_bom » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

Can the title be updated? This is more “10 tips for using Google”. It says nothing about why it’s an important skill for developers.

Re: Get better at Googling

#147

Post by squeaky-clean » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

beirut_bootleg wrote: post #16

What's often overlooked and omitted from this sort of guide is a person's ability to identify the trustworthiness and usefulness of a website that shows up in search results. It's not enough to juggle operands and search hacks. You also need to know which result to click. Another commenter suggested just searching for your error message. Try searching for "cannot read property of undefined" and scroll through the res…

Totally, and even on a good website, the real best answer isn't always obvious. I feel like on 30% of answers on StackOverflow the highlighted answer is either flat-out incorrect or out of date by 10 years and one of the answers further down will have 10x the upvotes and be more correct.

And then of course there's always the problem of asking the wrong question. Like searching "how to read string between nested brackets" or something, when really the person is just trying to parse JSON but isn't aware of what JSON is.

Re: Get better at Googling

#148

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

net_greybeard wrote: post #92

Google is okay for research on how other people have achieved something. But generally these days I am of the opinion it just teaches you bad habits. I really wish people would just read the docs instead of just googling. I am working on a large typescript solution and almost every error in the application is due to the original developers not reading the docs and instead just googling stuff from stack overflow. Also…

Reading the docs...

I cannot offer that to the users of my own docs, because I know how outdated it was...

Re: Get better at Googling

#149

Post by madacol » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #138

lostcolony wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just read the docs" depends on how good the docs are, and how discoverable they are. For instance, searching for "Java read a file", I find a bunch of examples. And they mostly are good enough, call out when they aren't, and provide useful links. Meanwhile, navigating Oracle's website is a nightmare. https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/io/file.ht... exists, and is actually pretty helpful, but the only…

A developer who is new to a technology absolutely needs to read the documents. No matter how good or bad, it's important because it probably tells you a lot of stuff you wouldn't learn on your own (or that someone else will teach you wrong). I do a lot of GCP work anymore, and the amount of devs who make service authentication way more complicated than it needs to be is really freaking high. It's clear that the peopl…

Cases where docs are not enough:

- Beginners do not understand doc's jargon, or they need to learn too much stuffs to understand it that they'd rather quit. So they end up relying on third party sources/implementations

- No English knowledge and no translations

Re: Get better at Googling

#150

Post by eliseumds » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

Not only developers, literally anyone. I am shocked at the amount of time an average individual spends looking for solutions to everyday-life problems when I can find answers in seconds, it's crazy, and sad. I taught my family some more advanced queries and they're loving it.