Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn • Hacker News Board

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#191

Post by avs733 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

skystarman wrote: post #85

avs733 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be research to support this argument. Has anyone found evidence for or against? Otherwise the claim here seems aspirational rather than useful. I know that the history of stadium deals, for example, this claim is nearly universally made to support incentivizing sports teams - and the evidence nearly universally shows it to be false. "In every case, the conclusions are the same. A new sports facility has…

I don't think the comparison to sports stadiums fit here. Usually there is already a stadium for a large NFL team or whatever in the city and the economies in the cities that are large enough to even host these teams are WAY more dynamic than where many factories are being built in the south or midwest. For example Walmart's HQ was built in a TINY SW Arkansas town. The billions that have been invested there by the co…

I didn’t say the comparison was necessarily valid or invalid. I said that evidence for and against you things can exist and should be brought when claims are made.

The only comparison I am making is that virtually identical claims are made about stadium deals and the evidence suggest the opposite of those claims is true.

I would just like these claims to be evaluated and assessed using evidence not accept it is true because they fit within the narrative that is presented every single time a company wants a tax break

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#192

Post by fnord77 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

vmchale wrote: post #109

fnord77 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a pretty low risk gamble for the politicians and there's almost always a reward for them even if the deal falls through.

In this case because Scott Walker lost re-election.

> On July 16, 2019, President Trump announced his intent to appoint Walker to be a Member (Private Life) of the Board of Trustees of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in the Smithsonian Institution

he was rewarded with a sinecure.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#193

Post by mbesto » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

skystarman wrote: post #85

avs733 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be research to support this argument. Has anyone found evidence for or against? Otherwise the claim here seems aspirational rather than useful. I know that the history of stadium deals, for example, this claim is nearly universally made to support incentivizing sports teams - and the evidence nearly universally shows it to be false. "In every case, the conclusions are the same. A new sports facility has…

I don't think the comparison to sports stadiums fit here. Usually there is already a stadium for a large NFL team or whatever in the city and the economies in the cities that are large enough to even host these teams are WAY more dynamic than where many factories are being built in the south or midwest. For example Walmart's HQ was built in a TINY SW Arkansas town. The billions that have been invested there by the co…

> For example Walmart's HQ was built in a TINY SW Arkansas town.

I understand what you're saying here, but Walmart is a really bad example here. They started in Bentonville in the 50's as a tiny shop and the city grew with their growth - their decision to stay in "a little town in Arkansas" was organic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Walmart

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#194

Post by pokot0 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

moneybaggins wrote: post #86

pokot0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key people often overlook. If we stop using our AI geniuses to develop tracking algorithms and start building automation, we can have nextgen factories in the West. The environmental factor is yet to be solved though. For the most part, developing countries are trading environmental damage for money. Not much different from harvesting oil or other resources to an economist.

Well let’s see, work in adtech and make $1M TC and get treated with kid gloves by the company or work in industrial engineering and make $100K and be a cost center. How do we change the incentives? Ban advertising and tracking? But making the alternative more attractive is out of the cards...

I know and I agree. It's hard. But don't tempt me on banning ads! :P

If you look from the outside, as a society we are using a lot of our best brains for very frivolous things. I wish for a more efficient way of using our minds!

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#195

Post by pokot0 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #94

pokot0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key people often overlook. If we stop using our AI geniuses to develop tracking algorithms and start building automation, we can have nextgen factories in the West. The environmental factor is yet to be solved though. For the most part, developing countries are trading environmental damage for money. Not much different from harvesting oil or other resources to an economist.

Physical manufacturing doesn't have the sort of profit margins that software provides. You can't give devs the kind of pay many expect when there are 10x more people in the production chain. Investors aren't going to flock to such businesses.

Inverstors are very short sighted. I am advocating for a 100 years plan. You can't expect a bunch of greedy boys to plan for returns after they are dead....

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#196

Post by cma » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #181

cma wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a coordinating union of states though, we don't need states to be pitted against each other to subsidize existing wealthy owners.

That seems like a ridiculous idea. The very purpose of the states is “50 different experiments”. I want states pitted against each other.

That's a later conception of Brandeis isn't it? Think of the early political cartoon of a snake cut into 13 pieces that needed to join to defeat the British, not experiment in competition against each other to win the war by subsidizing the largest existing concentrated owners to entice them to their state with corporate welfare.