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Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

paulkingsnorth.substack.com

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Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#41

Post by ceilingcorner »

Nursie wrote: post #5

> We need these roots. You might. I need friends and family, some community participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to be tied up with in the text. > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and we are in denial. This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.

When your country falls apart because there is no longer a shared narrative, language, or worldview holding it together, yes, it will affect you.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#42

Post by ceilingcorner »

kergonath wrote: post #35
seandoe wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to intentionally divide ourselves.

We are not deeply connected to the natural world at all. Otherwise we’d have panicked about the mass extinction we are causing already and we’d do more than talking about addressing climate change. We are profiting off nature, turning it into a domesticated version we hope will be sustainable (but have no proof it will be, quite the contrary). And yet it’s true that we never understood the world around us so well. Th…

You have misunderstood the word connected. The parent commenter meant that we are intertwined with nature, not that we are responsible caretakers.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#43

Post by vorpalhex »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #34

Deleuze - Guattari and their concept of deterritorialization is useful here. Basically, capital destroys the culture of a local area, rebuilds it, and repeats this process ad infinitum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization This is easy to observe in somewhere like San Francisco. Most traces of culture from the pre-1990 era have been erased completely or have been turned into a theme park. Contemporary S…

The native Americans frequently conquered each other and rebuilt the conquered lands to fit their empire. It happened with the Greeks and Romans, the Persians, etc and etc.

This isn't new. Places change, and "capital" has nothing to do with it.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#44

Post by ceilingcorner »

vorpalhex wrote: post #43
ceilingcorner wrote: post #34

Deleuze - Guattari and their concept of deterritorialization is useful here. Basically, capital destroys the culture of a local area, rebuilds it, and repeats this process ad infinitum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization This is easy to observe in somewhere like San Francisco. Most traces of culture from the pre-1990 era have been erased completely or have been turned into a theme park. Contemporary S…

The native Americans frequently conquered each other and rebuilt the conquered lands to fit their empire. It happened with the Greeks and Romans, the Persians, etc and etc. This isn't new. Places change, and "capital" has nothing to do with it.

The concept is intrinsically linked to globalization and global markets.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#45

Post by vorpalhex »

I hate this style of writing, and it can generally be summed up as:

"Don't like the current situation? Well you just need to and things will be fixed!"

The author is of course not alone in writing this kind of meaningless content. "We simply need more Justice!", "We need to ground ourselves", "We need to rediscover God" etc etc.

If you want to write on these lines start by defining, very very tightly, your terms. Be specific in the ill you think your solution addresses. You should probably plainly list cons of your claims.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#46

Post by vorpalhex »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #44
vorpalhex wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The native Americans frequently conquered each other and rebuilt the conquered lands to fit their empire. It happened with the Greeks and Romans, the Persians, etc and etc. This isn't new. Places change, and "capital" has nothing to do with it.

The concept is intrinsically linked to globalization and global markets.

So you're suggesting the ancient Persians were globalizing to form markets? I mean, while ancient trade was quite a bit bigger than folks tend to give it credit I don't know I'd use the term "globalized".

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#47

Post by agumonkey »

vorpalhex wrote: post #45

I hate this style of writing, and it can generally be summed up as: "Don't like the current situation? Well you just need to and things will be fixed!" The author is of course not alone in writing this kind of meaningless content. "We simply need more Justice!", "We need to ground ourselves", "We need to rediscover God" etc etc. If you want to write on these lines start by defining, very very tightly, your terms. Be…

With a touch of name dropping

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#48

Post by burntoutfire »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #36
burntoutfire wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welfare is basically mandatory charity - it's forcing everyone to chip in (via taxes) for the people who can't manage to support themselves. What I'm talking about is something else entirely - it's a setup where for example the neighbor takes care of your cows and other animals if you go to town for a day or two. Or you help him rebuild his house after a fire. Or, the older kids of your neighbor look after your young…

Your idealistic vision sounds well and good. But what if you refuse to conform to cisgender- and heteronormativity, but your neighbour is a bigot? What if you are a politically active citizen, but your neighbor’s politics are hostile to yours? (Note that the rise of the Nordic welfare states in fact helped to smooth out some political polarization that was hurting those societies in the early 20th century.) In the pa…

> Your idealistic vision sounds well and good. But what if you refuse to conform to cisgender- and heteronormativity, but your neighbour is a bigot? What if you are a politically active citizen, but your neighbor’s politics are hostile to yours?

I don't think people cared much about politics at all before modernity. If anything, the conflicts if any in Europe were centered around religion. As for the minorities, due to people's bigotry, perhaps sometimes they are indeed better off in an alienated modern world.

> Also, “bored and depressed bureaucrats” and “Kafkaesque rules” is a caricature, it may not be how others perceive their country’s welfare state. Satisfaction in fact may run high.

It's not a caricature. There are plenty of cases of people who needed help, but for some random stupid reason the bureaucracy refused it (I think even on this forum there is a girl from Germany whose parents died when she was young and, due to a glitch in the system, she was left on her own and forced to support herself via prostitution). The paper shufflers see the pointlessness of the rules they have to obey and the misery it causes (i.e. they knew the girl should get help, but the system just said they can't help her), which is a contributing factor into their potential depression.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#49

Post by ceilingcorner »

vorpalhex wrote: post #46
ceilingcorner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is intrinsically linked to globalization and global markets.

So you're suggesting the ancient Persians were globalizing to form markets? I mean, while ancient trade was quite a bit bigger than folks tend to give it credit I don't know I'd use the term "globalized".

No, I’m suggesting that the concept is more complicated than your middlebrow dismissal is suggesting.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#50

Post by UncleOxidant »

totetsu wrote: post #16
Nursie wrote: post #5

> We need these roots. You might. I need friends and family, some community participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to be tied up with in the text. > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and we are in denial. This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.

Well she was a christian mystic, with Jewish parents, so its bound to be tied up with that. If you get past that even as an atheist a lot of her writings are quite thought provoking. IIRC, using spiritual thinking as a flashlight to illuminate the unknown that is outside what can be understood by reason, or, that which is divided is also connected .. and maybe some stuff about friends and separation

As the article points out, she was a Christian but very critical of the dominant forms of Christianity:

"Weil herself was Christian, but was scathing about official forms of the faith which had, she said, in most cases lined themselves up with ‘the interests of those who exploit the people.’"

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