Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years • Hacker News Board

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#381

Post by Breza » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #379

lolinder wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egypt definitely has fault here, but the company that owns the ship could have gotten the ship out of there if they cared about him at all. Yes, it might have been expensive, but I would expect a US based company to have rescued him within weeks of this situation starting, not years.

There’s a time honored solution for this - bond. You’re not allowed in port until you post a bond that would cover whatever - crew repatriation, port fees, whatever. This could be formalized, eg through a holding company (Lloyds?) that the port could verify the bond with, etc. I don’t have any knowledge of the shipping industry but from hearing this and other stories it sounds like a cluster f*k.

That makes sense. If I want somebody to change my locks or cut down a tree at my house, they need to post a bond first.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#382

Post by pacman2 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

I don't get it. 4 years without food an electricity? No Payment? What did he eat?

"was able to swim ashore every few days". Ok, swim ashore, hitchhike to the next city, try to cross a border. Border to Israel looks tricky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Israel_barrier

Worst case, go to Sudan or something. Apply for Asylum, get deported.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#383

Post by stickfigure » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #280

peteretep wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have pissed in a bottle before out of expediency, but I've never spent several years stranded on a ship without power, company, etc, out of free will. Conflating the two seems weird.

Do you piss in a bottle on a daily basis as part of your job? Comparing peeing in a bottle [a few times in your life] for expediency compared to doing it on the daily, seems to be its own conflation.

I piss in bottles and on the sides of roads on road trips. Sometimes daily, depending on the length of the trip. You make it sound like some great injustice. It's just pissing in a bottle, who cares?

It's pretty offensive to compare this to being held prisoner on a ship.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#384

Post by stickfigure » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

cmeacham98 wrote: post #366

gwright wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that "I have no legal way to leave" is a different scenario than "I won't leave until I get paid". Both situations have a tremendous unfairness about them but they aren't the same and I don't think it is unreasonable to think that those details are an important part of the story.

Depending on thtle situation, there is little to no difference between "I have no legal way to leave" and "I have no legal way to leave and be paid for my work". The vast majority of the world's population is not in a financial situation where they can just write off months of work for no pay, so they might as well have been legally trapped there.

As opposed to spending four years on the boat, then leaving without getting paid? Cut your losses, man.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#385

Post by cardanome » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

Popegaf wrote: post #345

novok wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fault here is ultimately with egypt. They were not letting him leave, they took his passport and not even letting him get 'deported' back to his home country. This is not from outsourcing, this is Kafkaesque bureaucracy created by Egypt itself.

I disagree, ultimately, we the consumers are at fault. We buy the cheapest products (or the flashiest: see Apple) and these are the consequences. Companies have to save costs to compete because we won't agree to pay more. We won't vote for politicians that make everybody's life better: we will vote for politicians who promises that "the other guys" are going to suffer and that "you or your group" is going to have an…

> I disagree, ultimately, we the consumers are at fault.

Nope. This is a lie fabricated by big corporations so that they don't seem responsible.

People have limited money and time. Just because you buy a more expensive product does not mean it is produced more ethically.

If two companies are selling their product for the same price then the one using non ethical behavior to lower production cost will still make more profit. It has a competitive advantage and will take over the market. Increasing the base price because you as a consumer are willing to pay more does not help the situation.

Some companies advertise with certain labels that imply that they are more ethical. One example of this is called green washing. Most of the time it is an advertisement stunt and does not improve the situation.

The research necessary to ensure the product you buy is ethically produced is way above the scope for an average consumer having a job and other obligations to do.

> We won't vote for politicians that make everybody's life better

Lobbyists have way more power over politicians than the common man trying to vote for the smaller evil.

Only if they are organized do they have a voice. For this they need to first understand that blaming consumers is a lie and that the industry needs to be regulated.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#386

Post by hcurtiss » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #378

_brnu wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you consider it such a "disaster" when so many from all around the world are desperate to move here? I realize that's kind of a cliche' right-wing talking point, but it still seems some relatively is merited.

People want to move because they need the jobs! As I said, the US has a great justice system for commercial enterprises. But from the human point of view it is a disaster.

I don't know, man. It seems to me that having a job is actually a pretty big factor from the human point of view.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#387

Post by jzl » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

aasasd wrote: post #75

Not to compare bad vs worse, but when I get bored for ten minutes I tend to remember that at least I'm not in Otokichi's crew: > The ship, without a mast or a rudder, was carried across the northern Pacific Ocean by currents. It drifted for 14 months, during which the crew lived on desalinated seawater and on the rice of their cargo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otokichi (from a recent-ish HN thread).

You don't even need to go back that far. Just look at the story of Jose Alvarenga from a few years ago. He was adrift in the Pacific in a tiny fishing boat for the same amount of time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Salvador_Alvarenga

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/07/fisherman-lost...

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#388

Post by LegitShady » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #344

LegitShady wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...please explain your point using a logical argument, because on its face it's ridiculous and untrue.

Wait, I'm an idiot. I wrote "less exploitative" when I went to write more exploitative. You're right: to say that it's less exploitative would be absurd. I need to write fewer posts when it's late at night...

no worries, I wasn't sure what you intended but it didn't make sense so I asked.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#389

Post by jandrese » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #248

harry8 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why? Then there would be someone else stuck in that situation. The CEO was the right person to to replace him immediately until they could make it a sufficiently attractive proposition that someone else would want to do it. You know by the usual means. Pay, supply drops, fuel for power etc. The shipping company's CEO is 100% responsible for not dealing with the situation properly because they absolutely did not do t…

> The shipping company's CEO is 100% responsible for not dealing with the situation properly because they absolutely did not do that in any way, shape or form. And if the company went bankrupt or the CEO suddenly died/disappeared? Then what? There could be any number of reasons why a company might be unable to do what they need to do. The guy is still stuck there then, because it all rests on the shipping company rat…

Then whoever was second in command at the company sells off the ship (probably at a loss) and uses some of the money to send the first officer home. If they can't afford to keep the ship then they shouldn't sit on the title and trap one of their own employees in a derelict floating prison.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#390

Post by ryanlol » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #130

Folks - this is what we are outsourcing and externalizing. When foreign entities are able to bid for a lot less, and pay a lot less, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they will not bother with 'end of life' for ships, or getting insurance, or worrying about the lives of people who are 'expendable'. Those very nice buildings in Dubai come from some nasty labour practices. If every piece of this puzzle from end-…

> Those very nice buildings in Dubai come from some nasty labour practices

I’ve spent the past few months taking a deep dive into the Dubai real estate market. Excluding some villas, there are maybe 2 or 3 “very nice” buildings.

Many look nice on the outside, but rarely on the inside.