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Get better at Googling

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Re: Get better at Googling

#101

Post by TrackerFF »

CivBase wrote: post #44
TrackerFF wrote: post #38

To abstract it a bit more - the core skill is being able to learn search engine syntax and search operators. Much in the same way that learning regex can be incredibly rewarding. I've (unfortunately) met senior managers that equate googling with incompetence, because they've assumed that coders who rely too much on google (or other search engines) simply can't or don't want to learn languages enough to do stuff by me…

> because they've assumed that coders who rely too much on google (or other search engines) simply can't or don't want to learn languages enough to do stuff by memory. How do these people expect developers to learn if not by searching for knowledge? There's a big difference between searching for information and blindly copy-pasting solutions from Stack Overflow.

I've worked with older engineers that only used manuals / man pages, but with that said, they are part of a small minority these days. But with age / seniority, they're often in senior positions.

Re: Get better at Googling

#102

Post by deeg »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #90

This is only true really for younger developers who haven’t understood the value of RTFM for software. Web search is less valuable to me as I get older due to experience. It is more valuable to those that don’t have experience and want a playground to say: “if I do this, how can I do it, who else has done it?” A good example is if I ask a developer to write a MITM proxy server. You can search all day how to write one…

I'm an older developer and I google constantly. I deal with Java, Typescript, Scala, Ruby, Python, and bash on a regular basis and sometimes I forget the syntax or method for an operation. I can usually find it within seconds.

Re: Get better at Googling

#103

Post by yepthatsreality »

Graffur wrote: post #97
yepthatsreality wrote: post #90

This is only true really for younger developers who haven’t understood the value of RTFM for software. Web search is less valuable to me as I get older due to experience. It is more valuable to those that don’t have experience and want a playground to say: “if I do this, how can I do it, who else has done it?” A good example is if I ask a developer to write a MITM proxy server. You can search all day how to write one…

Disagree completely. So much documentation is written poorly and will lead to confused implementations.

Sure, but poorly written documentation isn’t what I’m talking about. For every bit of poorly written documentation there’s probably already a tool with great documentation that’s been doing it better for much longer than whatever you may be working on.

Returning to my MITM proxy example, there is a python tool already called `mitmproxy`. A search will tell you that but the site will tell you how to use it. A quick search on how to use it will bring up too many resources with the actual documentation not really ranked as the top result. Even though it should be, it could reinforce stackoverflowing everything. Constantly using dated secondhand advice is not ideal in my opinion.

Re: Get better at Googling

#104

Post by mbostleman »

anonymousiam wrote: post #78

Back before Google, developers actually had to know what they were doing. Most kept textbooks on their bookshelves and cheat-sheets in their notebooks. I've done a lot of work in air-gapped secure facilities where no Internet is available. Whenever we get a new-hire, they must adapt to not having Google as an instant resource. About half of them cannot cope, and they move on within a few months. The half that stay ac…

>>Most kept textbooks on their bookshelves and cheat-sheets in their notebooks.>>

Which is the same thing as Google, only exponentially smaller and slower.

Re: Get better at Googling

#105

Post by yepthatsreality »

deeg wrote: post #102
yepthatsreality wrote: post #90

This is only true really for younger developers who haven’t understood the value of RTFM for software. Web search is less valuable to me as I get older due to experience. It is more valuable to those that don’t have experience and want a playground to say: “if I do this, how can I do it, who else has done it?” A good example is if I ask a developer to write a MITM proxy server. You can search all day how to write one…

I'm an older developer and I google constantly. I deal with Java, Typescript, Scala, Ruby, Python, and bash on a regular basis and sometimes I forget the syntax or method for an operation. I can usually find it within seconds.

I see older developers do it too.

And which sites do you find this information on. Is it in the documentation? Wouldn’t it be quicker to just know what docs will tell you that info each time instead of searching for “Java function signature” or “JS pass-by-value” and going to the same place. You’re welcome to continuously search for stuff if that workflow is useful to you, but it’s not very efficient.

Re: Get better at Googling

#106

Post by xxpor »

net_greybeard wrote: post #92

Google is okay for research on how other people have achieved something. But generally these days I am of the opinion it just teaches you bad habits. I really wish people would just read the docs instead of just googling. I am working on a large typescript solution and almost every error in the application is due to the original developers not reading the docs and instead just googling stuff from stack overflow. Also…

Google/DDG is usually the fastest way to find the docs. Documentation sites are usually terrible for discovery.

Re: Get better at Googling

#107

Post by npteljes »

eitland wrote: post #63
alessioalex wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People could just duck for 'google' to find out about it.

Brilliant! You put a big smile on my Friday face :-)

It's the official terminology! Hover over the duck on their minimal start page:

https://start.duckduckgo.com/

Re: Get better at Googling

#108

Post by t-writescode »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #105
deeg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an older developer and I google constantly. I deal with Java, Typescript, Scala, Ruby, Python, and bash on a regular basis and sometimes I forget the syntax or method for an operation. I can usually find it within seconds.

I see older developers do it too. And which sites do you find this information on. Is it in the documentation? Wouldn’t it be quicker to just know what docs will tell you that info each time instead of searching for “Java function signature” or “JS pass-by-value” and going to the same place. You’re welcome to continuously search for stuff if that workflow is useful to you, but it’s not very efficient.

How do you find the docs? Do you just keep a giant list of bookmarks for every project and sdk you might use? Or, do you Google the docs?

Re: Get better at Googling

#109

Post by rajasimon »

net_greybeard wrote: post #92

Google is okay for research on how other people have achieved something. But generally these days I am of the opinion it just teaches you bad habits. I really wish people would just read the docs instead of just googling. I am working on a large typescript solution and almost every error in the application is due to the original developers not reading the docs and instead just googling stuff from stack overflow. Also…

I was thought about creating a documentation search engine for the everyday frameworks. It uses the natural language to match the pattern in the docs to give the best results immediately.

Re: Get better at Googling

#110

Post by lostcolony »

net_greybeard wrote: post #92

Google is okay for research on how other people have achieved something. But generally these days I am of the opinion it just teaches you bad habits. I really wish people would just read the docs instead of just googling. I am working on a large typescript solution and almost every error in the application is due to the original developers not reading the docs and instead just googling stuff from stack overflow. Also…

"Just read the docs" depends on how good the docs are, and how discoverable they are.

For instance, searching for "Java read a file", I find a bunch of examples. And they mostly are good enough, call out when they aren't, and provide useful links.

Meanwhile, navigating Oracle's website is a nightmare. https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/io/file.ht... exists, and is actually pretty helpful, but the only way I was able to find it was by Googling "oracle java read a file". Searching Oracle's own doc site (itself hard to find for a given version of Java) with the same string (i.e., 'read a file') turned up nothing useful ( https://docs.oracle.com/search/?q=read+a+file&category=java&... )

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