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Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

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Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#91
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define abandonware?

I would require copyright holders to renew their copyright. 5 years for free, then $1 for the 6th year, $2 for the 7th, $4 for the 8th, $8 for the 9th, $1m for the 25th, etc.

Not every copyright holder is a massive corporation. Artists produce many pieces per year. That would cost them a lot to keep copyrights.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#92
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wii store? Same story. You can no longer access your purchases. Not really. You can still play games purchased at the Wii Shop, you just can't re-download them. [Edited to note: Apparently you can re-download or transfer to a Wii U] That's not meaningfully different from having one physical copy: you can use the physical copy until the point that it's worn out.

"...for the time being you may continue to re-download content you have purchased or transfer that content from a Wii system to a Wii U system. Be aware that these features will eventually end at a future date." https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/... It happened recently so there is a grace period to download final copies of a game, but if your console dies and you want to transfer games to a…

> if your console dies and you want to transfer games to another unit you get off eBay in a few years, you are SOL.

Again, this is not functionally different than your cartridge dying. If your NES cartridge dies, you can replace it with a second-hand copy, or you're SOL. The same.

You're saying that there's a consumer benefit to a console-cartridge system being modular (such that either module can be replaced when desired, rather than needing to replace them as a package), but I don't think this has any bearing on ownership rights, nor any of the other points that you claimed. At least, not in the case of the Wii Shop.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#93
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define abandonware?

I don't think I have the full definition. But if you think about online games, it becomes abandonware if you can no longer log into the game servers? Or if your product is dependent on DRM, then is becomes abandonware when the DRM servers shut down. I think different classes of media will require different definitions of when they become abandonware, but I think we'll mostly know it when we see it.

Your definitions are better than what I was imagining, but I think they might still have rather significant edge cases & loopholes in reality. To give some examples off the top of my head: What if (say) access ends up varying across jurisdictions? What if they keep the servers running, but start charging for them? What if the company wants to sell to someone in another jurisdiction? etc.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#94
I fully agree with this lawsuit. I felt OK with "purchasing" movies from Apple at the Blu-Ray retail price, because I was under the impression that my files remain mine so that if I backup them correctly, I can watch the movie later.

By now, I know that this isn't the case. If I had known earlier, I wouldn't have paid full price for a limited digital copy. Instead, I would have purchased the Blu-Ray which - if you treat it well - will last far longer than my digital movies did, despite backups and stuff.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#95
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'of course you dont own it' is false. Compare with a book, which you can own. The law makes sure you stil can't distribute limitless copies, even if you own it. But you can inherit a book, lend it out, be sure it stays around after the vendor would rather take it back, even swatting flies as a purposes it wasn't ment for. Licensing, and specifically the EULA, was popularized by Microsoft, to make sure you didn't…

Another way of looking at it is that you don't own the book neither. You have a licence, bound to a physical copy (that you own though, and that is transferable). The thing that changed in the last 20 years, is that we are now buying licences that are not even bound to physical copies, and that are expresly nominative. I suspect that if books would have allowed this sort of mecanism (on a technical level) it would ha…

I have plenty of bookshelves in my house and plenty of other media too--though at least some of that is ripped and the discs are sitting in boxes in the attic. I also spent way too much time and effort earlier in my life hauling that stuff around (plus a ton of other paper) when I moved.

I at least like to think that, if I were younger today and especially if I were living in a small and/or shared city apartment, I'd have a whole lot less "stuff" and would rely a whole lot more on digital content.

ADDED: To your other point. Anything covered by copyright law has some restrictions on your rights as an "owner." So you can't copy a book and give those copies away. (You can probably digitize and otherwise make copies for personal use--certainly you can as a practical matter.) You can't give public reading performances (Most obviously in the case of stage plays. You don't even have mechanical licenses as in the case of music.)

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#96
post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

> Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. I am so excited for my great-great-great-great ... grandchildren to find a layer of plastic DVDs in the earth’s crust 25 generations from now /s. Seriously, Blu ray discs and DVDs are such a waste of resources.

How does the energy use compare of stamping out a DVD and of streaming a movie to your TV? Especially if it's a film you (or your children) watch repeatedly.

The answer is not obvious. According to [1], mailing a DVD and streaming a film use about the same amount of energy. This doesn't include the energy cost of manufacturing the DVD, but stamping out plastic disks is cheap, so it can't be too high. On the other hand, other studies show that DVD players, being older, tend to use more energy than streaming boxes. For repeated watching, ripping a DVD and streaming it locally seems likely to be better.

Or best of all, stream the movie and store it locally for future viewings. But that's not allowed. DRM is killing the planet.

[1]: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/energy-cost-stre...

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#97
post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

This is why supporting DRM-free stores is important (e.g. Bandcamp for music and GOG for games).

Shame GOG don't care about your privacy. When they published a profile page for you without asking first, leaking your personal data and what games you owned to anyone you had friended before, I contacted them and they just straight up said they didn't think it was a problem.

No DRM is a marketing gimmick for them, they don't actually care about the privacy of their customers.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why supporting DRM-free stores is important (e.g. Bandcamp for music and GOG for games).

Are there similar platforms for buying ebooks? I like ebooks but I'm not comfortable with all the layers of DRM involved in it.

Smashwords comes to mind: https://www.smashwords.com/ . Once you buy a book, you get a DRM-free epub that you can open in whichever e-book reader you fancy.

There are in fact more of such stores, but this is the one that I use and remember.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#99
post #57

Physical media lets you have privacy without logging when you watch media, what media you consume, how many times you consume it, or how long you consume it. You can enjoy it offline, and in 20 years long after the studio that licensed it is gone. You can give it to a friend or loan it out. Or sell it. It is yours. Meanwhile DRM media we pay full price for, or if the content is only available via streaming we pay for…

Physical media doesn't automatically provide privacy. There are players which do track what blu-rays you put in them. Blu-ray players are internet enabled and include advertisements, which obviously can have tracking as well. Also you are tracked by the banks and stores you make the purchase from. You bought a Blu-Ray at Target on a Discover card. Target tracked it and sold it. Discover tracked it and sold it. Companies batched that together and added it to the same profile that Netflix updated. You still got tracked.

Physical media also includes A LOT of DRM as well. You called digital streams "DRM media", which is a weird phrase considering all physical media uses DRM as well.

I think you're remembering some rose-tinted view of physical medias past, not discussing the reality of physical media in 2021.

It's weird that you're so inaccurate with these terms and concepts, it's almost like you have an agenda

>Literally the only way to get the same freedoms with modern digital media we had with physical media, is piracy.

And there it is: The Pirates Rationale™

You see it a lot. An excuse in need of rationalizations, so the details get mixed up because it's not about the details, it's about the end point.

Stealing media you didn't buy is literally stealing from artist and developers and no amount of crying about how the DRM on Blu-Ray is more OK than the DRM on Netflix will change that. This community should not be as immoral as Reddit and proudly and openly support stealing software and content that you did not, in some form, pay the artist/creator to access. If you're "pirating" things you own, consider ripping and cracking them instead, less chance of malicious code that way. But if you're using your loose understanding of these concepts to justify stealing from developers and artists, then shame on you.

Re: Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies

#100
post #6

I've seen the phrase "Own it in {HD/BluRay/4K}" so many times and always cringe. You're just owning a limited license ( extremely limited, in the case of digital goods) to watch. The average HN user can spot the difference and say "of course you don't own it, and in case of streaming, you only have access for as long as the service is around", but that's not what the average consumer sees. "Buy" and "own" have very s…

This 'of course you dont own it' is false. Compare with a book, which you can own. The law makes sure you stil can't distribute limitless copies, even if you own it. But you can inherit a book, lend it out, be sure it stays around after the vendor would rather take it back, even swatting flies as a purposes it wasn't ment for. Licensing, and specifically the EULA, was popularized by Microsoft, to make sure you didn't…

Licensing (probably) came in with the IBM System/360 when IBM was starting to sell some of its software separate from its hardware primarily for anti-trust reasons. At the time, whether software could be copyrighted was still something of an unsettled legal matter and, therefore, IBM considered copyright a weak protection so they settled on licensing. And, of course, because of first sale doctrine a lot of companies subsequently latched onto the idea even after software came to be seen as clearly copyrightable.
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