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Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

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Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#261
post #251
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the entry-level 256GB SSD. With 1TB drives around 90€ at retail.

Apple always nickel-and-dimes storage. Overpriced storage is how they make probably 5-10% of their hardware profits. iPhone still have 64GB as their base storage in 2021...

The default is 128GB..

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#262

One thing which I don't think has been commented on is the marketing effort behind the M1. It's getting a lot of prominence and its use across lots of computers means that there can be a consistent message that "M1 is great - get a new Mac and get an M1". It also provides an opportunity to distinguish between M1 and the next generation M2 (presumably). I've always thought Intel's marketing was a bit confused - i7 sta…

Yeah the marketing effort is immense, and it's really surprising to me how many eagerly lap up the angle Apple is pushing without much reflection, even on HN. Like the good old Apple hype days. Now to be fair, the M1 is an impressive iteration on the A* chip line. But the Ryzen 5000 mobile chips really don't look bad at all in comparison, and a 5nm version of those would level the field.

Apple Silicon is NOT just an ARM CPU. It's also a deep integration with macOS, and a unified memory architecture (less unnecessary copying on the bus). For example on the M1, certain very common operations for macOS apps, like freeing Objective C pointers, which happens millions of time per second, are optimized at the hardware level. The M1 is not a CPU.

So no, the Ryzen 5000 with 5nm would NOT level the field.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#263
Certainly seems that way. It looks like there going to be an M1 chip for 99% of folks, which works fine for all non-CPU-pegging work (Air, 13" MBP, 24"iMac, Mini), an M1.Large for stuff that pegs CPU (27"iMac, 16"MBP), and M1.XL for 0.01% Mac Pro folks who drop 5 figures USD on computers. But I'd expect the numbers to decrease logarithmically and the prices to be multiples. M1 machines from $700 to $1700, M1.L from $2000 to $4000, and M1.XL from $6000 onwards.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#264
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there isn't a 5nm version of those... And laptop battery life is vastly different between these two.

The difference isn't that big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKN9nvXTGHE And for 5nm, I'm quite sure AMD already has contracts for that with TSMC. So the gap should be even smaller.

It has less battery life and less performance (judging by Cinebench, at least), so it is a fairly substantial difference. And it's quite possible that Apple will remain one TSMC process ahead of AMD for the next few years, even if AMD do put out 5nm chips in the near future.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they have the fab capacity to be able to do that. Since M1 products are selling very well, they likely have reallocated fab capacity they had planned for the successor to the M1 back to making the M1. A higher performance M1 would have a bigger die size. It would have a lower yield and get fewer dies per wafer. The same capacity would sell fewer products. Apple probably earns more profits by simply sell…

> I don't think they have the fab capacity to be able to do that Do you have a source for there being any fab capacity shortage for Apple (or anyone, for that matter) at 5nm? Older nodes are a different story because that's still where most of TSMC's customers are doing their high-volume production.

Plenty of people would like to die-shrink their 7nm designs down to 5nm if only capacity existed.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be clearer but I suspect they do it on purpose for a purpose I've never understood. I've always thought that a system like i7-4-8-10-M (4 cores, 8 threads, 10th gen - Mobile) i5-8-8-11-H (8 cores, 8 threads, 11th gen - High perf/Desktop) There has to be a reason they haven't just been explicit with it. When I shop for a cpu I care about a handful of things, manufacturer, cores, threads, generation, model

I like to read news and keep up to date on silicon development but when it comes down to buying a laptop with an Intel CPU I really can't tell how good it is from the name. I usually end up putting it into cpubenchmark to get any sort of comparable numbers. Nowadays a chip from 2014 and 2019 can both be named i5, and the 2014 can have higher clockspeed while being half as slow... You just can't tell, and maybe that's…

Keep in mind this is all fallout from the 90s/really 00's where "clockspeed was king" which AMD worked hard to disabuse the market of.

We've never really recovered from that.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#267

Make it as fabulous as much as you want, $1700 for an 8 core, 8 gigs of ram machine is just one plain fabulous joke. This in the time when 16 gigs ram is the baseline if you plan to do anything more than facebook and instagram.

Thats the point, price/value does not fit for the majority of apple devices... But the M1 is amazing, I have to acknowledge that.

I'll stay with AMD and wait for 5nm...

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#268

The M1 processor is a direct result of the death of Moore's law. It's an amazing processor, but a sad sign of things to come. The performance gains from Moore's law have typically come from shrinking die size. That has ended, you can't juice more performance from general purpose CPUs. If general purpose processors no longer advance quickly enough, the only way to get performance gains is to build custom chips for com…

I get your point but...

> The M1 processor is a direct result of the death of Moore's law.

It is a bit ironic since the M1 is a 5 nm processor, currently the finest process, and I think it plays no small part in its success. A very Moore's law-esque solution.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#269

One thing which I don't think has been commented on is the marketing effort behind the M1. It's getting a lot of prominence and its use across lots of computers means that there can be a consistent message that "M1 is great - get a new Mac and get an M1". It also provides an opportunity to distinguish between M1 and the next generation M2 (presumably). I've always thought Intel's marketing was a bit confused - i7 sta…

The i7 name was ruined by dual core mobile parts It meant at one time “quad core”

Yes this was so annoying... We optimized software for multi core, but the laptop builders label their products as 10th gen i7.... which says little about it’s performance. GPU labels are easier to decode by comparison.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#270

Make it as fabulous as much as you want, $1700 for an 8 core, 8 gigs of ram machine is just one plain fabulous joke. This in the time when 16 gigs ram is the baseline if you plan to do anything more than facebook and instagram.

X cores + X gigs of RAM does not mean better performance for higher values of X. That is the fundamental innovation of Apple Silicon, which people still struggle to grasp. The M1 upended how we think about CPU performance. It's not even a CPU, it's a unified memory architecture with hardware-level optimizations for macOS. You can't even cleanly compare the performance benefits of having memory and CPU on the same chip, because the time spent on copying operations is far less.

The plain fabulous joke is that we've spent 30 years thinking that increasing cores and increasing RAM is the only way to increase performance while the objective M1 benchmarks blow everything out of the water. The proof is in the pudding.

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