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Why Lichess will always be free

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Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#221

Post by krisgenre »

yesenadam wrote: post #171
krisgenre wrote: post #34

I love lichess but before that (in mid 2000's) used to spend a lot of time on freechess.org. Not sure how popular it is now.

I think you mean FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)! It started in 1995 I think. I started there too about 2007. It's still going, I visited a few months ago. A bit sleepier than it was. That was the place to follow the moves of live tournaments and discuss the games, before the age of live video broadcasts of tournaments. I loved it so much. Channel 23 was for quacking only etc hehe. Also I mainly played slower games…

Yes. I mostly played 2 12. The place felt like IRC for chess, you had to type commands like 'seek 2 12' for a new game and you needed some desktop client like winboard/xboard to play.

Edit: Just played a game, my ID was still active and my last game was in 2012!

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#222

Post by fsflover »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #219
fsflover wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which happens because you run non-free JS code: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

Whether the code is free or not is irrelevant for that.

Any examples of free JS doing that?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#223

Post by vasco »

zimbatm wrote: post #61
pull_my_finger wrote: post #6

> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

When you open the window do you feel the roads, houses or buildings you see are an attack on your attention? That your own house is an attack on the attention of others? That people would rather just see the raw nature that was there before?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#225

Post by ulimn »

vasco wrote: post #223
zimbatm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

When you open the window do you feel the roads, houses or buildings you see are an attack on your attention? That your own house is an attack on the attention of others? That people would rather just see the raw nature that was there before?

Yes, I do sometimes.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#226

Post by dav43 »

lavp wrote: post #190

Lichess is truly on a class of its own. It delivers a better service than any of it’s alternatives (in my opinion), and it’s actually 100% free with no BS. Funny enough, I’ve donated around $30 in total which is $30 more than I would’ve ever thought of spending on a chess site. Hats off to thibault and the open source community for creating such a wonderful gem.

Likewise, I found myself donating because - for me - it’s generated great value.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#227

Post by johannes1234321 »

blowski wrote: post #93
jhrmnn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I’ve felt a strong distaste for ads since being a teenager is that ultimately they rob me of, or try to mess with, my free choice

Almost all human interaction is in some way trying to persuade you to choose something that you might otherwise not. When I ask my wife "Shall we play a board game?" I'm in some way doing the same thing. That's not evil. Advertising is not inherently evil. When it becomes evil is when it intentionally tries to deceive us, capture and processe insane amounts of information about us, and influence the display of inform…

> Advertising is not inherently evil.

Evil isn't an objective measure. However ads want to get some attention away from the content I care about to the ad.

One can argue that the "classic" Google ad, where I search for a pan and Google showing me ads for shops selling pans serves my request, at the same time I can argue that I was looking for a somewhat objective (while that's a lie - the algorithm showing search results has some biases) listing, while I get the one paying most.

In my judgment the ad is bad, but the attention it drags is my payment for the information.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#228

Post by blueblimp »

maccard wrote: post #112
DorianSinDeep wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While its good that you're willing to compromise in a reasonable manner, I don't think it has particular relevance to the point that advertisements in any form are most likely to be about something you won't go looking for yourself. There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves.

> There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves Really? I'd love to hear more about this.

Tesla doesn’t run ads, as far as I know.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#229

Post by maccard »

Scarblac wrote: post #196
maccard wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves Really? I'd love to hear more about this.

Did you see an ad for Hacker News? I'm writing in a paper notepad right now, found a web shop selling it by a normal Google result after describing what I was looking for, not an ad. The pens I always buy I first bought in a stationary store, ended up liking them and now I always buy that brand. Farmers sell their produce to supermarkets probably without having to advertize for them, and I go to the particularly supe…

> Did you see an ad for Hacker News?

hacker news is heavily affiliated with ycombinator - and I can almost guarantee that I've seen ads/puff pieces for ycombinator over the last decade.

> The pens I always buy I first bought in a stationary store, ended up liking them and now I always buy that brand.

Just because you purchased a product without seeing an ad for it doesn't mean that that company doesn't have an ad spend. How did they get to that stationery store in the first place?

> Farmers sell their produce to supermarkets probably without having to advertize for them

Farmers likely work with a coop style organisation (who _do_ advertise heavily), or maybe have some local link. That local link is generated by having a presence in local business forums, farmers markets, local stores. Back in the day, your local butcher or greengrocer would take out full page ad in your town's newspaper to show the special offers they have on this week, nowadays I get facebook ads for my butcher.

> Lots of things we use on a daily basis we never saw ads for, and yet they're sold to us by companies. Somehow.

That's a strawman; the original claim was that there are companies with no advertising, not that people buy products without seeing advertising for them.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#230

Post by vishnugupta »

Stratoscope wrote: post #152
vishnugupta wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too look back at old ads with fondness and reminisce about the simple times of late 80s and early 90s. However when I recollect how I felt at that time about those ads it's no different from today. The fondness that I associate with those ads are because they are a window to a world that was simpler and in someways beautiful. Do I miss those times? Somewhat. Do I want those days back? Probably not, because for me (…

Indeed, for me that would be the late 1950s. Times were simpler in some ways, not so much in others. Our house was one of the first built in the neighborhood. The house being built next door after we moved in had one feature we didn't have: a bomb shelter! So we made that our neighborhood clubhouse. It was a place where all the kids could hang out. We brought cookies and snacks and prepared for survival. And when not…

That is such an awesome story, thanks for sharing!

Thanks to HN for connecting people across time and space and enabling exchange of memorable experiences.

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