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LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

lulzsecurity.com

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Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#151
I will say this for these folks, they seem to have gone 'all in.'

One of the interesting thing about politics is how hard it is to change things. To get a bill passed or an amendment added you need to get other politicians on your side, you need a compelling plan, and then you need lots of follow through. Controversy is to politics like energy is to chemical reactions. The more controversy you have around it increases the 'energy' level, more politicians are willing to commit to a vote because some of their constituents are telling the 'you gotta do something about ...'

The actions of these guys and wikileaks and anonymous are feeding a lot of energy into this system. I listened to a presentation by the East-West Institute [1] which was attempting to harness stuff like this to make 'cyber terrorism' a national issue.

Groups like this take the energy that is out there and channel it into "policy workshops" which are really nothing more than telling the politicians that if they follow their recommendations it will address this growing need. They feed off this stuff. Nobody listens to you if they don't think there are any issues that need addressing (the old "Everything is fine! Why change anything?" dilemma).

The truly fascinating thing about this is there was a great analysis on terrorist groups and whether or not they ever achieved their stated goals [2]. Basically terrorists who don't have a special interest group or political action committee (PAC) in place to harness the energy created by the terrorist acts for durable change are unsuccessful at making any change. Instead the energy they produce, the ability for the political system to make changes, is harnessed by others to make the changes that these other people want to make instead.

Its a weird thing but when you look at how it has been done by PACs and SIGs it can be really enlightening. Its like security theater at the airport, everyone (even the people who do it), know that it does nothing to actually make people safer on planes. However what it does do is give another person their own mini-military unit (DHS) and a way to influence things.

This happens on the small scale too, some horrible thing will happen due to some highly random event or events, and it causes great public sympathy and outcry. Someone comes along and taps that energy, promises it will "never happen again" if you do what they say, and they aren't really lying, the odds of that thing happening again could be extremely remote.

To use a current example, people who are proposing their gear by installed in nuclear plants so that the next time a 9.0 quake + 40' tsunami hits the plant will be safe. Since the likelyhood of another 9.x quake + Tsunami happening again in our or even our grandchildren's lifetime is effectively 0 they could do anything and claim victory. Sell special "Tsunami resistant latex paint" which if you coat a building with this the water will go around instead. Its a crazy claim but someone will buy into "this will make the bad thing not happen again" and guess what? It doesn't happen again because the chance of it happening is so close to zero.

Lulz here is dumping huge amounts of energy into the system. I don't see any 'good' guys lobbying effectively for tapping that to make for better network security or IT systems. I do see people like the DHS saying the need a budget appropriation of 50M$ to staff up a new department of expert counter-hackers to mitigate this new threat.

When people with money say "We have to do something!" there will always be people who stand up and offer to do something in exchange for their money.

[1] http://www.ewi.info/

[2] http://english.safe-democracy.org/causes/

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#152
post #44

They can't go back now. Before this, mostly what they were doing was small time. DOSing a website, or leaking some emails is annoying, this could potentially get people killed. This is max level from what I'm reading so far (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent). Homeland security info, info on ongoing investigations, etc. etc. This might actually make lulz more dangerous. They have nothing to lose now. Bef…

Quit posting your trash on my internet you damn noob.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#154

I will say this for these folks, they seem to have gone 'all in.' One of the interesting thing about politics is how hard it is to change things. To get a bill passed or an amendment added you need to get other politicians on your side, you need a compelling plan, and then you need lots of follow through. Controversy is to politics like energy is to chemical reactions. The more controversy you have around it increase…

I agree with you on the energy balance thing, I don't agree Lulz is creating that energy.

What we're seeing is the consequence of letting docs you want to keep a secret out. Lulz is just fishing and reporting what they caught.

To the people who want to revoke more of our liberties for what is basically lousy security: I wish you good luck.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No apostrophe on "family" sir (you change meaning by taking that liberty), though I should have placed a comma or a slash between family and names. Unless personally involved in any wrongdoing, I don't think it makes any meaningful difference to have the officer's names.

When I refer to collection of names assigned to a person that aren't given to them by their parents, I generally call that the last name. Apologies, 'family name' never struck me as a term for that word, so my mind automatically translated it. Yay being a United States-ian. And having the officer's given names ~probably~ isn't meaningful, I suppose I can give you. Not dangerous, just creepy (perhaps part of the inten…

I don't think they've figured out what their job is. I tend to favor people over authorities because I've seen what happens when public servants become "we know what's good for you" rulers.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#156
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, those aren't my beliefs. Merely an observation. > one of the means employed by tyrannical states On the other hand, we're starting to see the opposite happen. People in positions of power who abuse their authority (e.g., police) are starting to be targeted by regular people whose lives they interfere with. Have a Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/MySpace/whatever account? Your personal information, friends, fam…

Let's not forget though - "I'm just doing my job" absolutely applies here. DPS did not create the laws. They enforce them. AZ is the state where a guy died doing his job in a photo radar vehicle. He was shot by a guy who felt the man in the vehicle was "the government". These families and homes are now targets.

Don't make me invoke Godwin's law on you and your "I'm just doing my job" clause.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#158
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (others' reports, I'm not touching that torrent) This is ridiculous, thousands of people are downloading that right now and the details will be on the news anyway. > If [when] they get caught, they're going to prison for the rest of their lives or worse. Only if they're from the US. In most of western Europe, maximum is 20 to 30 years and only for murders or specific crimes. For that they'd probably just get a few…

> In most of western Europe, maximum is 20 to 30 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Oury_Jalloh "In 2007, two officers were charged with causing bodily harm with fatal consequences and with involuntary manslaughter, respectively, but were acquitted in December 2008 for want of evidence." In Western Europe, the cops can still get away with killing you if they don't believe that the penal system will properly…

Those deaths in custody seem to be mostly suicides. The case of Oury Jalloh is truly horrific but it is only one case.

I cannot see any trend or evidence for systematic executions in the data you presented. There may well be a few cases, I don’t know, but to suggest that this is common seems absolutely laughable and ridiculous, given the data you presented.

Re: LulzSec releases trove of AZ law enforcement documents

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The morality argument is interesting. However killing and abusing is hyperbole in this context.

Probably the killing part. Though the police might perpetrate illegal deaths, either through neglect while in custody or 'over enthusiasm' during raids, I don't think that its a systemic abuse. The documented racial profiling, however, is could be properly termed 'abusive'.

There's likely no policy of killing, but there is a policy of covering up inconvenient leaks, arresting photographers, etc, that gets used when there is a killing, or any other crime from drunk-driving to bribery.

The police code of never admitting an officer committed a crime is itself a crime, and one of the worst.

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