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Why Lichess will always be free

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Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#171

Post by yesenadam »

krisgenre wrote: post #34

I love lichess but before that (in mid 2000's) used to spend a lot of time on freechess.org. Not sure how popular it is now.

I think you mean FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)! It started in 1995 I think. I started there too about 2007. It's still going, I visited a few months ago. A bit sleepier than it was. That was the place to follow the moves of live tournaments and discuss the games, before the age of live video broadcasts of tournaments. I loved it so much. Channel 23 was for quacking only etc hehe. Also I mainly played slower games (10 10 or 5 14) and chatted with a lot of the people I played, must have met people from almost every country in the world. I haven't found other sites nearly so friendly.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#172

Post by [deleted] »

greyman wrote: post #164

I like lichess, it is my first go to website to play chess, but for-profit models also have their advantages. For example in chess.com, they pay grandmasters to be there, and one can learn a lot from grandmasters. They earn money, and invest them back so the site can be even better. So I think neither model is wrong, or inherently better than the other.

[deleted]

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#173

Post by ratww »

dash2 wrote: post #141
zimbatm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

Use the back button and don't go there again. Website owners need to make a living, they have a right to try to do so the way they see best, and not all consumers share your preferences.

Using the back button is not enough.

Even using your method, the website will transmit information about me to several ad networks without my consent about retargeting, about which sites I'm visiting, which sites I visited before (via referrer header) and will fingerprint me. Even with their (mostly non-compliant) GDPR cookie banners, information is still transmitted.

As far as I'm concerned, no website owner has ever given me a choice of "just using the back button".

Only ad-blocking is enough to stop this from happening.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#174

Post by almavi »

greyman wrote: post #164

I like lichess, it is my first go to website to play chess, but for-profit models also have their advantages. For example in chess.com, they pay grandmasters to be there, and one can learn a lot from grandmasters. They earn money, and invest them back so the site can be even better. So I think neither model is wrong, or inherently better than the other.

You almost sound like the world champion don't usually play on Lichess.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#175

Post by yesenadam »

9387367 wrote: post #143
almavi wrote: post #137

So many comments failing to grasp the idea of someone wanting his job/passion to be publicly available at the cost of him not getting rich. So sad.

HN is most US based, that’s one of the richest countries on earth where their citizens suffering from epilepsy wear bracelets to warn others not to call an ambulance.

I believe the majority on here arent from USA, if that's what you meant.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#176

Post by littlestymaar »

matsemann wrote: post #102
indigochill wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like the developer/founder should have a higher salary. This is probably the root of most of tech's angst: people thinking they're entitled to get rich just because they made /run something. If you can live comfortably doing something as rewarding as making something like Lichess, what more can you really want? People are talking about FU money/financial independence, which I agree is nice, but you can totall…

I'm not talking about entitlement. But this guy is really good at multiple things. SRE, frontend, backend, project management etc. He could probably earn twice as much working a normal job, and even more for the right company. He don't want to. And maybe don't want/need to earn more. And that is completely fine. But his impact is huuuge. I'd wish more people did like him. But I don't think many will, because those sk…

> But this guy is really good at multiple things. SRE, frontend, backend, project management etc. He could probably earn twice as much working a normal job, and even more for the right company.

AFAIK, he is French, so you need to compare it with the local job market: there's no way he could get twice as much even in the most-paying company here, the market price for such a profile is probably around €70k, assuming he wanted to work in Paris[1] (or maybe Lille or Lyon), and if he lives anywhere else in France, he's probably already earning as much as he could wish, and he's working one something that matters to him. I would totally take such a deal.

[1] Ok, this is probably way less relevant nowadays, since covid made remote work mainstream for most of us, but remote work was barely imaginable in most French company before the pandemic came.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#177

Post by oli5679 »

laydn wrote: post #7

Cost breakdown here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Si3PMUJGR9KrpE5lngSk... I hope OVH would donate some compute/machines to lichess. It would help lichess a lot financially. It would be good publicity for OVH and I think it would be a drop in the ocean on their balance sheet.

It's interesting that he spends so little on servers.

1 billion chess games per year, often with >20k concurrent users and and some very heavy-duty engine analysis occurring for some proportion of these games and they only spends $56k.

I have seen startups with only hundreds of customers spend 10x this on AWS by copying the fancy tools used by tech giants.

It is also interesting how little the creator pays himself ($56k) and how much he spends on data protection ($40k), taxes ($52k) and various administration tasks. I wonder if his time is as heavily skewed towards administration as his expenditure.

I would also like to meet this guy, buy him a beer/coffee and thank him for the value he has created:).

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#178

Post by [deleted] »

topicseed wrote: post #91
zimbatm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

Would you say the same about free TV's ads coming mid-program? Or newspapers you actually buy that still contain ads? How would such a trade be done upfront in your opinion? In a way, you are the one coming to PLATFORM (site, newspaper, TV program), so don't come back maybe, but don't tell PLATFORM whether they can out a distracting vase at the entrance, or ads on the sidebar, or a distracting ticker at the bottom of…

[deleted]

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#179

Post by almavi »

scaladev wrote: post #170
almavi wrote: post #137

So many comments failing to grasp the idea of someone wanting his job/passion to be publicly available at the cost of him not getting rich. So sad.

What else did you expect on a ~~hacker's~~ founder's site? Make a billion and retire before hitting 20, that's the goal.

The ability to understand and praise (although not share) someone else's goals in life!

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#180

Post by kthejoker2 »

In a simple 2x2x2 matrix of

* product aimed at specific audience / general audience

* product is "one big idea" / a lot of little ideas

* product requires long term engagement / short term engagement

Only "specific audience" / "one big idea" / "long term engagement" can expect to - indeed, must - thrive on patronage.

The 7 other boxes are beholden to their users' fickleness.

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