Sure this is a very nice cause, but if you don't have proper revenue, you can't pay UX designers to make something more people could use. Explains why Lichess is straight up ugly and the interface is just messy.
Why Lichess will always be free
31–40 of 477 posts
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#32> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…
While its good that you're willing to compromise in a reasonable manner, I don't think it has particular relevance to the point that advertisements in any form are most likely to be about something you won't go looking for yourself. There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves.
This is basically saying that "build it and they will come" works, but we know that's a fallacy.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#33> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…
While its good that you're willing to compromise in a reasonable manner, I don't think it has particular relevance to the point that advertisements in any form are most likely to be about something you won't go looking for yourself. There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves.
I could see an argument that ads for specific, chess-related products like Chessable courses would be welcome on Lichess, perhaps even as an opt-in so users can choose to support the site. I know Chessable is constantly introducing new courses and I don't always remember to check regularly. A banner that tells me of a new course I'm interested in would solve that. For me, at least, but I doubt I'm the only one.
I wish more sites would do ads without using ad networks. Communities like the chess world are small enough that all the providers know each other and could probably work together in a way that benefits everyone, including users.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#34I love lichess but before that (in mid 2000's) used to spend a lot of time on freechess.org. Not sure how popular it is now.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#35> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…
> If Lichess decided to promote some chess books or software on their page to supplement their donations,
Why more? If donations are enough why ads?
"Advertising is the way we grant power to the machine" - said Samuel Butler in Erewhon (1872).
I'm thinking a lot about the nature of advertising. I guess, after all, it sells excess, stuff which shouldn't exist. It propels low quality, overproduction, unlimited and unnecessary growth. The pain-points of this current era.
Just take a look at our / tech / programming sector. We are well done without ads. I've never seen a Clojure or a CSS ad in my life, nor Atom, nor Linux. Nor Gmail, nor TakeShape, nor Vercel and the list is endless. Yet still using them and happy with them. And they are happy with me.
No ads work. In change, this market requires educated participants, not just blind consumers.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#36I just wish Lichess had more accurate ratings
What do you mean by "accurate"? Compared to chess.com? FIDE? USCF? It really makes no sense comparing ratings between different pools. None of them are more accurate, they are just different.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#37Cost breakdown here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Si3PMUJGR9KrpE5lngSk... I hope OVH would donate some compute/machines to lichess. It would help lichess a lot financially. It would be good publicity for OVH and I think it would be a drop in the ocean on their balance sheet.
I feel like the developer/founder should have a higher salary. $58k a year for running a site with millions of games per day.. deserves more. Is it because they don't get enough donations? Or saving the extra money for growth/buffer? (edit: originally posted this as a top level comment but felt it fit better here) Edit2: just checked. I've spent 11 whole days playing chess there (and not sure if that only counts game…
I recall an AMA on Reddit, where the founder said he is perfectly fune with his salary as long as LiChess stays free and he can continue doing what he loves.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#38There are two interpretations of “why”. What is the motivation for it being free. What is the mechanism for it being free. In one of the links, > It amounts to $170 per month. Great news: I have a job (at prismic.io) and I can completely afford that. Lichess is my hobby, and all hobbies cost a bit of money. I can tell you that the joy of building lichess is absolutely worth the price I pay for it! Maybe it’s because…
> Maybe it’s because I spend some number of hours a week looking at trees, but it never ceases to amaze me how stupid the average technical person is around the word “forever”. If you truly want to be pedantic, the word "forever" does not appear in the post at all. Less pedantically, I believe most people have the ability to understand that nothing lasts forever. From reading the post, the emphasis was on "free" and…
What’s the difference between “always” and “forever”? Do you think that’s a valid sticking point for people? I’m willing to rephrase as I don’t see a distinction that matters to any of my points.
> “Why Lichess will be free as long as it exists.”
Same problem. It’s built entirely on wishful thinking. Do you agree with all the choices you made when you were twenty? Do you agree with all of the choices you made after the first time you remember disagreeing with 20 year old you? What makes you think you aren’t going to disagree with half of what you think now?
Current you is going to have to win arguments with future you if you insist on any sort of concept or permanence. Especially since 75 year old you is going to think the concept of permanence is bullshit. If you’re not going to take any steps in that regard, or even plan to make them in the future, then you really don’t understand human nature very well, and probably not yourself either. That alone is worth some hours of quiet contemplation.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#39I might have played 2000 games on lichess at this point. Everything from the ease of finding a game, to the smoothness of web and mobile clients, to features centred around analysing and improving your game are nearly flawless. Seeing this post about their commitment to keeping it that way thrills me.
Re: Why Lichess will always be free
#40There are two interpretations of “why”. What is the motivation for it being free. What is the mechanism for it being free. In one of the links, > It amounts to $170 per month. Great news: I have a job (at prismic.io) and I can completely afford that. Lichess is my hobby, and all hobbies cost a bit of money. I can tell you that the joy of building lichess is absolutely worth the price I pay for it! Maybe it’s because…
laydn posted a coat breakdown above that shows that the service costs more like $1,000/day to run, all in...