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The culture war is killing us [video]

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Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#81

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

titzer wrote: post #71
bostonsre wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure corporate media had much choice in the matter if they wanted to survive. Almost all are for profit companies that lost heavily when eyeballs shifted to social media. Social media companies make money off of ads, so they optimized viewership without being concerned with the consequences. In order for corporate media to stay alive and stop hemorrhaging viewers, they needed to play by the new rules. It's a…

It's an ant death spiral at this point. The only way to be free of it is to unplug and focus on your own life.

> ant death spiral

Great metaphor. Thanks for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_mill

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#82

Post by Pfhreak »

re wrote: post #76
Pfhreak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

King did not call for calm, in fact often the opposite. Here's a quote from him: “Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. . . . I must confess that I am not afraid of the word ‘tension.’” King was non-violent , but he…

> He specifically chose not to condemn riots No, he explicitly did. Even in the full context of the famous "language of the unheard" quote it is clear he is criticizing both riots (as being counterproductive) and the conditions that led to them. Here's a another quote from him: > Let me say as I’ve always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I’m still convin…

I think your reading is more correct, I can no longer update my comment.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#83

Post by Igelau »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #48
maroonblazer wrote: post #40

I'm surprised income and wealth inequality didn't enter into the discussion. That seems like a significant contributing factor to sectarianism and the culture wars. Economic dividends concentrated in a smaller group coupled with technology that is accessible to everyone and amplifies the differences between the two groups seems to portend a bad outcome.

It's not popular to point out, but a lot of the divisiveness is designed to keep wealth inequality from ever really being talked about. It's to keep the lower classes fighting each other over less important stuff, sometimes downright silly stuff.

My wife and I were just arguing about Adam Toledo, and had boiled it down to which frame within a single second of video matters the most. Obviously we were getting nowhere. How on earth could you get the truth out of that?

Then somehow we got onto "wait, why are so many people in desperate circumstances?" That's the real issue, but the polluted discussion around it wants to be able to divide into Frame 1 and Frame 2 camps.

Too many things are like this. NBC or whoever might go "See? Here's George Floyd cuffed and at the car. End of video" while the BBC might have that, but also the next few minutes with a much more two-sided struggle. I'm sure somewhere else they abridged it to nothing but the part where the cop flies out the rear of the car. Now we have three different truths to lash out at each other with while no one is paying attention to root causes.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#84

Post by javajosh »

The saving grace of our society is that, thankfully, things are still pretty comfortable at the personal level, even if their politics dictate that they be in conflict.

If you don't search for it you won't see the kind of bifurcation around the Chauvin trial. Most people just breath a sigh of relief, including a lot of Republicans.

It does deeply concern me that so many people claim Chauvin was framed, etc. Those who don't believe it, but claim it for effect, they are the sociopathic trolls; the ones who really believe it, I would suggest either have serious mental health issues or are very susceptible to groupthink. It is the groupthink folks that I find particularly terrifying, because they are really good people, but will happily cheer on someone or something truly horrible, and continue to truly believe they are right with God.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#85

Post by Fellshard »

titzer wrote: post #66
clcaev wrote: post #10

I believe the cultural wars focus the population's attention on issues that divide us, rather than issues that would unite: concentration of power, gutting of main street, etc. The detachment of our news and media from local civics denies our population practice working together, with real problems, with real consensus. Instead the polarization is on more abstract, national, and intractable concerns -- political spor…

> As technologists, how can we work to rebuild regional and local political and economic sovereignty? I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, technologists are naturally focused on scaling solutions up to the entire world. We want to use technology to push hard real world problems behind a screen, behind keyboards, and behind servers. This creates a contradiction in our thinking that cannot be resolved.…

Unfortunately, the very idea of locality and federation of power is itself one of the dividing lines - clever, that, really. The people who believe all things must be fixed from the top down, and the people who believe things can only be fixed from the bottom up.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#86

Post by bad_username »

maroonblazer wrote: post #40

I'm surprised income and wealth inequality didn't enter into the discussion. That seems like a significant contributing factor to sectarianism and the culture wars. Economic dividends concentrated in a smaller group coupled with technology that is accessible to everyone and amplifies the differences between the two groups seems to portend a bad outcome.

Wealth inequality is not a problem in itself. Poverty or theft is.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#87

Post by CyberRabbi »

_kaz4 wrote: post #70
GingerMidas wrote: post #8

A FPTP two party system almost necessitates culture war, since by definition if you're for one party you're against the other. At the end of the day you're forced to pick a side. The anchors are suggesting you ignore that eventuality.

No, they're suggesting that the people who vote for either party don't have to hate each other with absolute hatred. They're saying that people should remember that they still have a lot in common. You can be against the other party because you disagree with their policies and still not think that they are evil that must be destroyed.

What you’re saying is certainly possible but I think an important question is whether or not it is more likely than the current situation? I ask this given the nature of humanity and the forces and incentives at play.

If the incentives in a democracy naturally tend towards outcomes where it has destroyed itself, either democracy is a bad idea or it requires regulation and oversight. As a liberal myself I believe democracy is an inherent good and requires care just like anything else.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#88

Post by speedplane »

bad_username wrote: post #86
maroonblazer wrote: post #40

I'm surprised income and wealth inequality didn't enter into the discussion. That seems like a significant contributing factor to sectarianism and the culture wars. Economic dividends concentrated in a smaller group coupled with technology that is accessible to everyone and amplifies the differences between the two groups seems to portend a bad outcome.

Wealth inequality is not a problem in itself. Poverty or theft is.

> Wealth inequality is not a problem in itself. Poverty or theft is.

Inequality leads to power centers. Power centers lead to systemic corruption. Systemic corruption is a problem.

So yes, extreme inequality is itself a problem.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#89

Post by bordercases »

titzer wrote: post #66
clcaev wrote: post #10

I believe the cultural wars focus the population's attention on issues that divide us, rather than issues that would unite: concentration of power, gutting of main street, etc. The detachment of our news and media from local civics denies our population practice working together, with real problems, with real consensus. Instead the polarization is on more abstract, national, and intractable concerns -- political spor…

> As technologists, how can we work to rebuild regional and local political and economic sovereignty? I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, technologists are naturally focused on scaling solutions up to the entire world. We want to use technology to push hard real world problems behind a screen, behind keyboards, and behind servers. This creates a contradiction in our thinking that cannot be resolved.…

"We" is a helluva drug. Same with "you". What about "I"?

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#90

Post by jrsj »

clcaev wrote: post #10

I believe the cultural wars focus the population's attention on issues that divide us, rather than issues that would unite: concentration of power, gutting of main street, etc. The detachment of our news and media from local civics denies our population practice working together, with real problems, with real consensus. Instead the polarization is on more abstract, national, and intractable concerns -- political spor…

I know I am very pessimistic on this but I honestly believe if someone started to succeed in doing this the political & economic establishment would crush them by any means necessary.
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