Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On Being an Outsider

lithub.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 115 posts

Re: On Being an Outsider

#71

Post by haecceity »

logshipper wrote: post #44
haecceity wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think OP is overthinking it at all. Home is not just a question of place of living but a question of identity and belonging. I'm guessing integrating into society in Toronto is difficult for OP so there's weak feeling of belonging in Toronto.

You're right in that home is also a question of identity and belonging. It's just that while I would say that I am fairly well adjusted to Toronto (heck I started playing hockey on a frozen pond this past winter), there's always going to be this "vacuum" of sorts (just from the virtue of not having had any roots here whatsoever) that keeps me from feeling like I can say I am from here. Its a question of making peace…

If the issue is not having roots you can always buy some real estate :)

Re: On Being an Outsider

#72

Post by ipaddr »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

Where you are from is a relative question.

If you are in the US you might say Canada. If you are in BC you might say Toronto or Ontario If you at the University of Guelph you might say UofT If you are in Toronto you might say India If you are in India in a different region you might say goa If you are in goa you might say your village name If you are in your village you might point to an area or your street If on your street you might give the number

Where you are from is closest place that is different to the other person.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#73

Post by [deleted] »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

[deleted]

Re: On Being an Outsider

#74

Post by titzer »

I moved from the US to Germany and lived there for almost 7 years. Even as someone with German ancestry (from 5 generations ago), a German last name, and enough language skills to get by, you never really fit in. Germans are insular in a way that, I suppose, all people are, but a special kind of matter-of-fact curtness that is off-putting. Younger Germans are embarrassed by it and make a show of welcoming outsiders (e.g. the Syrian refugee situation), but deep down, the Germans don't want Germany being overrun by immigrants. I heard as much even from eastern Europeans who lived their whole lives in Germany.

I had to eventually move away, for various reasons, but being in a foreign land, alone, is alienating by default. You never really know the rules or customs, you have no shared cultural background, like TV shows or games, and the nuance of a foreign language is so deep.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#75

Post by woutr_be »

xwolfi wrote: post #69
pelagic_sky wrote: post #2

I have always loved Japan. I visited once, and made plans to move there. I lived in the heart of Tokyo for three years. I made a lot of friends, but being a white American, I came to grasps that I would always be a Gaijin, and that I would never fit in, no mater how well I spoke Japanese or adopted to their customs. I left Japan to focus on my future somewhere back in America. 10 years later I booked a three week tri…

Something that helped me in Hong Kong (am French) was also to marry very local, and have a child. First, that helps for all that very difficult negociation in Cantonese on rent price, bill setup and all the crap the employees are a bit lazy to translate for you. But it also gives you an unremovable link to the country. Yes I'll be a Gweilo forever in their eyes, and they barely understand when I say I'm more Chinese…

I feel you. Having lived in HK for 8 years now. I hold a permanent HKID, and consider HK my home. I've been trough the protests in 2014, and the ones in 2019, it was mentally draining because it's hard to discuss these subjects with locals. To them, you're just a foreigner that can leave any time he wants. When you disagree on certain political things, you'll often hear; "you're just a foreigner, you don't understand", and there's nothing you can say to that.

I've come to terms with it tho, accepting that even though this is my home, I'll never be truly accepted or be able to fit in.

But I also think this has made me a better person. Having experienced racism multiple times here, I'm much more aware of my own actions.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#76

Post by theonething »

Diederich wrote: post #42
BugsBunny1991 wrote: post #24

My parents were taken in as refugees by the US when they were in their early twenties and now, over forty years later, they still wonder if it was the right decision to stay here. They've made it to the middle-class and that's a pretty amazing thing, but they know this isn't their home. To go back, even for a visit, is too painful. So much time has past that it's hard to say what there is to even return to.

> they still wonder if it was the right decision to stay here May I ask, what are the main reasons why they wonder that? Thanks.

I'm curious about this too.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#77

Post by partomniscient »

pedalpete wrote: post #48
logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

I was born in Toronto, moved around a bunch as a kid, and Toronto just never felt like home. If I was going to Toronto, I'd never say "I'm going home to Toronto". I moved to Whistler, BC when I was 20, and lived there most of my life. I now live in Sydney, Australia, and when I say "I'm going home", I mean I'm going to Whistler, not Toronto. Whistler feels like home. Yet, when I say "I'm from Whistler", people always…

I don't think its that strange. Its just a side effect of those people who are and think of themselves as "from" where they grew up or first moved to projecting their way of thinking onto others. It's easier for them to shoehorn their version of your story/situation into their mental framework than it is to adapt their mental framework to handle your story/situation.

I still catch myself unecessarily projecting my way of thinking onto situations which distorts what is actually going on or loses information, just because its easier to do - not because its correct or fair.

They can misunderstand you, but they don't get to decide how you define 'home' to yourself, even if they discredit you.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#78

Post by periheli0n »

titzer wrote: post #74

I moved from the US to Germany and lived there for almost 7 years. Even as someone with German ancestry (from 5 generations ago), a German last name, and enough language skills to get by, you never really fit in. Germans are insular in a way that, I suppose, all people are, but a special kind of matter-of-fact curtness that is off-putting. Younger Germans are embarrassed by it and make a show of welcoming outsiders (…

I don’t think there is any country in the world that is truly and completely welcoming to immigrants. One is always the outsider. However what’s important to realise is that this is the default situation for most people, even is they just move town in their home country (although to a lesser extent).

Re: On Being an Outsider

#79

Post by teraku »

I feel like there is a lot of mixture between being an outsider and alienated versus being lonely.

Being lonely has become such a huge factor in (especially young) people's lifes, because they need to hop cities for university and later jobs a few times before they start settling down, that a lot of the friends they make have moved away, or they themselves moved away from their friends and it's hard to find new friends. Sometimes your only new social interactions are at work, and in a country like Germany where work and private are strictly separated at first, this is a double whammy.

It also affects very old people, whose friends have died and whose children and their friends have moved away.

Solitude is endemic in the west.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#80

Post by periheli0n »

Having moved country several times in my adult life, I wish to think that calling a new place one‘s “home” is a choice. Making a new home can be very hard though. Language, common customs, ways of interaction, all must be re-learned, new friends made. I think it is this huge effort that creates the barrier of calling a new place home.
Post reply on HN