The culture war is killing us [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#71

Post by titzer » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:03 AM UTC

bostonsre wrote: post #69

salimmadjd wrote: post #7

Have many of us have become the useful idiots of the corporate media overloads? I know it's fashionable to blame Facebook for the divisiveness, but I'm old enough to recall Obama's 2004 DNC speech that got him his first national attention. Before there was Facebook, Obama was talking about divisiveness. I firmly believe anger and anxiety is constantly injected into the mainstream corporate media to increase eyeballs…

I'm not sure corporate media had much choice in the matter if they wanted to survive. Almost all are for profit companies that lost heavily when eyeballs shifted to social media. Social media companies make money off of ads, so they optimized viewership without being concerned with the consequences. In order for corporate media to stay alive and stop hemorrhaging viewers, they needed to play by the new rules. It's a…

It's an ant death spiral at this point. The only way to be free of it is to unplug and focus on your own life.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#72

Post by Igelau » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

objectivetruth wrote: post #63

dang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please make your substantive points without putting down your fellow user. Your comment would be just fine without the first sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: the sentence I was reacting to was "You do not have a good understanding of King's work." Since it has been edited out now, I'm going to mark this subthread off topic and collapse it.

What would be the ideal "HN-friendly" way to point out that the parent does have serious misunderstandings of the topic at hand? I'm struggling to parse that first sentence in a way that someone would be offended by.

It's essentially flamebait.

> You don't understand blah, here's a quote!

is quickly followed by

> No, YOU don't understand blah, here's my quote!

It's not offensive, but it's a subtle bit of rhetorical judo to rile somebody up. And in a political thread that's probably going to get locked in 10 minutes anyway because it's got other flame wars going on.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#73

Post by titzer » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #20

The culture war isn't killing us - the other side is. War may suck but it beats being massacred.

If you wrote this ironically, then it is masterful. If not, it's tragic irony, as just got massacred by the other "side".

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#74

Post by pdamoc » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

There is an interesting book coming out later this year: "The Bias That Divides Us: The Science and Politics of Myside Thinking" by Keith E. Stanovich (applied psychology professor famous for his work on rationality)

Here is an article detailing the topic of the book. https://quillette.com/2020/09/26/the-bias-that-divides-us/

I'm seeing this get worse in my own country for very different reasons. There is a profound lack of reasonable people that take a moderate position where the other side is not demonized.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#75

Post by gameman144 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:08 AM UTC

rektide wrote: post #29

[flagged]

I'd recommend watching it before objecting to the content as a whole, as some of those objections are answered.

For instance, the quote about political faction being more divisive than race or religion was explicitly made to contrast the "bad old days" of Jim Crow or Catholic-bashing against today's society. Everyone can identify the hatred of those times, and pointing out that political identity is now more divisive than race/religion in their respective heydays really does show that political division is a problem (as opposed to just saying that political division is more prevalent than racial division which, as you mentioned, would be entirely expected.)

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#76

Post by re » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #44

pmoriarty wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All the calls for calm today are exactly the calls for calm they've always been in America -- calls from folks who are not suffering to those who are to just deal with it." Martin Luther King Jr. and the rest of the non-violent Civil Rights movement during the 1960's were calling for calm as they were being beaten, firehosed, attacked with dogs, imprisoned, assasinated and lynched. So I guess you must think they did…

King did not call for calm, in fact often the opposite. Here's a quote from him: “Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. . . . I must confess that I am not afraid of the word ‘tension.’” King was non-violent , but he…

> He specifically chose not to condemn riots

No, he explicitly did. Even in the full context of the famous "language of the unheard" quote it is clear he is criticizing both riots (as being counterproductive) and the conditions that led to them.

Here's a another quote from him:

> Let me say as I’ve always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I’m still convinced that nonviolence is the most potent weapon available to oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and justice. I feel that violence will only create more social problems than they will solve. That in a real sense it is impracticable for the Negro to even think of mounting a violent revolution in the United States. So I will continue to condemn riots, and continue to say to my brothers and sisters that this is not the way. And continue to affirm that there is another way.

https://news.yahoo.com/no-martin-luther-king-not-193204120.h...

The seeming national debate that one either must be pro-riot or pro-status quo/"law and order" is another instance of unnecessary "culture war" divisiveness and one that Dr. King would have disagreed with.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#77

Post by Pfhreak » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #68

Pfhreak wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. It wasn't meant to be pejorative, just factual. Your comments in this thread make sense though. Would a "This is a commonly held misconception about King" be more appropriate?

It would! Thanks for the kind reply.

No problem. I assume the last sentence of the parent comment is likewise over the line for similar reasons?

"So I guess you must think they didn't suffer?"

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#78

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:14 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #46

salimmadjd wrote: post #7

Have many of us have become the useful idiots of the corporate media overloads? I know it's fashionable to blame Facebook for the divisiveness, but I'm old enough to recall Obama's 2004 DNC speech that got him his first national attention. Before there was Facebook, Obama was talking about divisiveness. I firmly believe anger and anxiety is constantly injected into the mainstream corporate media to increase eyeballs…

It's well known that foreign intelligence services are active on social media trying to foment divisiveness. They're not even necessarily pushing a specific political goal, just getting Americans to hate each other. The Russians appear to be the most active but other countries play the same game. So before you get drawn into an online argument, ask yourself am I dealing with an authentic person or a paid foreign trol…

I wonder if the same thing happens within/between companies. Industrial espionage is a thing. When billions of dollars are at stake, why not "cultural activities" too?

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#79

Post by bostonsre » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

titzer wrote: post #71

bostonsre wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure corporate media had much choice in the matter if they wanted to survive. Almost all are for profit companies that lost heavily when eyeballs shifted to social media. Social media companies make money off of ads, so they optimized viewership without being concerned with the consequences. In order for corporate media to stay alive and stop hemorrhaging viewers, they needed to play by the new rules. It's a…

It's an ant death spiral at this point. The only way to be free of it is to unplug and focus on your own life.

Yes, individuals can flee to get out of the path of said shit snowball, but their descendants, family, friends, and neighbors are directly down hill from it.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#80

Post by anonymoushn » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #22

im3w1l wrote: post #20

The culture war isn't killing us - the other side is. War may suck but it beats being massacred.

You are not being massacred, and the 'war' is mostly based on willing misunderstanding, misattribution and the popular extolling of anger preachers.

Either my children will be rejected from universities even if they have perfect SATs and grades on the basis of their race or they will not. There is not much to misunderstand here.