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Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

wildtypefoods.com

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Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#181

Post by dukeofdoom »

lee wrote: post #180
dukeofdoom wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you agree that you existed when you were just two cells? Would it be murder to travel back in time and kill the two cells that had the potential of becoming you. I think the current you would probably not want that to happen.

It would not be murder to travel back in time and kill two cells that had the potential of becoming "me". I don't believe in some meta-physical soul or essence, so there is no "me" in the two cells. I exist today as a configuration of cells and experiences combined together. If you crushed an acorn did you destroy a tree? Absolutely not... you simply crushed an acorn.

> If you crushed an acorn did you destroy a tree?

you destroyed something that had the potential of becoming a tree. Not really sure why you want to separate these out into two distinct entities. What would you consider an acron that sprouted a stem and a leaf? A tree or an acron? I think most people would see that an acron is still the same living being, just a different configuration of cells in a transitionary state to becoming a tree.

You are a distinct collection of cells. As opposed to your neighbour, who is also a distinct collection of cells, which is different from you. Every one of your cells is different than his cells, for one, because they all have different DNA than your cell's DNA.

Its fine to claim that you only exist in the present moment. But to deny that your past self also existed for you to exist now, seems a little discontinuous and meta physical.

Also at what time scale does your past self not exist. Since your perceptions are time delayed. You might stub your toe, but it will take a split second for your brain to notice.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#182

Post by [deleted] »

iamwil wrote: post #76

As a curiosity and side note, Salmon wasn't always eaten by the Japanese as sushi. It was considered a garbage fish that you'd grill due to its likelihood of being infected by parasites. It was the Norwegians that had a surplus, and was looking for a new market to open up that salmon sushi became a thing. https://medium.com/torodex/salmon-sushi-is-not-a-japanese-in... The Norwegians probably won't pay attention to th…

[deleted]

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#183

Post by anonAndOn »

astrange wrote: post #158
anonAndOn wrote: post #97

Do they also grow it with shrimp cells so it turns pink or just use food coloring like they do with farmed salmon? [0] [0] https://wildalaskancompany.com/blog/heres-why-salmon-are-pin...

It's not accurate to call astaxanthin just food coloring. It's the actual source of pink color in flamingos/algae/shrimp/lobsters and it's certainly not unhealthy. https://examine.com/supplements/astaxanthin/

Synthetic astaxanthin is only added to the corn/soy pellets in the feedlot because people don't buy gray salmon. It's a line item in the COGS, nothing more.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#184

Post by dehrmann »

andrewla wrote: post #94

This movement towards synthetic meat seems very antithetical to the natural foods heuristic. Isn't what we've learned over the last half-century or so that processing food in an attempt to make it more nutritious/uniform/etc. generally involves a reductive analysis of the value of the food and in doing so destroys most of the actual nutrient value? The "shopping at the edges of the market" thing is a tolerably good h…

Sort of, but not really. Nutrient deficits are pretty rare in developed countries; I'd bet there are more anorexia cases than scurvy, goiters, etc. The main lesson has been that processed foods have been engineered to taste better, often because of added sugar, salt and fat, are less filling, and are more likely to cause weight gain because of that. Golden rice is a food that was engineered to be more nutritious, and if not for politics and GMO fears, it would be a nutritional game changer for the developing world.

This isn't to say modern agriculture practices are good, it's that it's hard to say people aren't getting enough nutrients in their diet when micronutrient deficiencies are rare and there's an obesity epidemic.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#185

Post by dehrmann »

cheese_please wrote: post #130
hutzlibu wrote: post #69

From the landing page, there is this great claim: "the chance to eat the foods we love without sacrificing our food ideals" But not information on how it is produced. So I won't know, whether it really matches my food ideals. I mean, how does it get produced? From real fish stem cells? So still, there needs be dead fish in the process at some point? So how many fish do you need to kill, to produce one portion of sush…

I don't know about WildType specifically, but it's not necessarily true that a salmon would need to die at any point in the process. Cells from a simple muscle biopsy could be cultured for this purpose, and a single biopsy may have the potential to produce a great deal of cells depending on the culture conditions. Or they may have developed an immortalized salmon cell line from an initial biopsy that they can prolife…

I think you're both right. There are reasonable enough ways to get cell samples without killing the fish, but they're so short on details I assume they're hiding something. For all I know, it's a no-kill fish version of Theranos that just serves store-bough salmon from the back.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#186

Post by dehrmann »

raldi wrote: post #87

What I'm looking forward to is lab-grown meat that improves upon nature. Imagine pigs didn't exist but someone figured out how to make bacon in the lab. What do we not have on this Earth that makes bacon seem like chicken breast? What might we invent that's three levels past otoro?

I hope there's some novel, amazing-tasting compound we haven't discovered, but I'm halfway doubtful because of tastes that show up in multiple things. How many things taste like anise? Why does fenugreek smell disturbingly like maple syrup? Ever had a durian?

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#187

Post by ipsum2 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #162
jtolmar wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Widespread adoption of this technology would likely lead to more total salmon lives, as wild populations recover.

Is wildcaught salmon popular and available? I literally cannot find any - anywhere. Then again I'm in Denver, which is not well known for its seafood.

Sockeye salmon is all wild, so if your store carries those, there you go.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#188

Post by wizzwizz4 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #169
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're different things. I could build my own processor fab for probably around €100 000, and those things used to cost millions – but I'm not exploiting economies of scale. Rather, I can look up how to best do it instead of having to work it out myself, plus I have better other technology available (e.g. a laser cutter can be modified to make parts of it). I'd still have the problem of sourcing materials and dispos…

If you can build your own processor fab today for €100 000, you are definitely exploiting economies of scale. It is possible because of the massive existing industry that's created the market for, and driven down the price of parts and tools and supplies that you need to put it together and run it. E.g., that inexpensive off the shelf laser cutter you need to buy.

But that's not “how prices drop as you make more of something is the "learning curve"”.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#189

Post by ipsum2 »

hinkley wrote: post #118

How is it that anyone thinks you're going to grow nutritious tissue without an immune system and expect anything but bad long-term outcomes?

Not a biologist, but I recall the use of antibiotics is pretty common with cell culturing.

Re: Wildtype: Sushi-grade salmon grown from Pacific Salmon cells

#190

Post by hinkley »

ipsum2 wrote: post #189
hinkley wrote: post #118

How is it that anyone thinks you're going to grow nutritious tissue without an immune system and expect anything but bad long-term outcomes?

Not a biologist, but I recall the use of antibiotics is pretty common with cell culturing.

I had a rather rude awakening when I was reading about a biological mystery that centered on a yeast that would not culture in a Petri dish. On top of the late discovery of h. pilori, and knowing a few people with mystery chronic illnesses, i think most of us have been set up by our education to think that microbiologists just about have everything figured out when in fact relatively speaking we still don’t know a goddamned thing about the microscopic world. They think we’ve identified something like 0.1% of all fungi in the world. We have bacteria and molds that can evade detection. Antibiotic resistance in ones we can see.

I don’t agree that we can stack-rank priorities, and I hate many of the ways in which people say, “maybe they should put their energy into something else first,” but I suppose that’s exactly what I’m implying here.

It’s entirely possible that trying to make things like this work will illuminate some of those exact mysteries. I think I’m just worried what happens in between those two events.

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