Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle • Hacker News Board

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#21

Post by seabee » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 12:50 AM UTC

sid0 wrote: post #18

pthatcherg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We care about gmail on all browsers :).

What about people who don't like or use the Gmail web UI (I use it over IMAP) but would still like to use Google Talk to stay in touch with friends? Is my only option to use third-party clients? I like Google Talk but dislike Gmail, and tying the two together doesn't really work out in my favour.

Hey, a client running in a web browser is still a client.

You should also probably realize the point of using XMPP is that it's an open standard, and anyone is allowed to make their own implementation; contrast with the uneasy interoperability of, say, MSN Messenger with Pidgin. Now they're using Jingle, do you need a first-party client? You don't expect first-party SSH clients from your hosting provider, or first-party email clients from your ISP. And god knows there are enough IM/VoIP clients out there, so I'm all for thinning the herd...

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#22

Post by drivebyacct2 » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 12:54 AM UTC

lenni wrote: post #9

Can iChat speak Jingle? I just tried the combination of web-based Gmail iChat and the web client can see that the iChat client has a camera and I can initiate a call but iChat never shows an incoming one. If I go iChat iChat over Google's XMPP server I can make a call. Does iChat speak yet another incompatible video call extension if it used with an XMPP network? Adium can't do AV either.... Can anyone recommend a OS…

What? Use the video chat built into Gmail. That doesn't utilize flash...

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#23

Post by JacobIrwin » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 1:14 AM UTC

Google Translate integrated with Jingle could/will be a joy to use.

I would love to talk to a college student in Greece about the local economic sentiment over VoIP.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#24

Post by Hoff » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 1:28 AM UTC

car wrote: post #17

lenni wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess SIP has weak support for Instant Messaging, which was the primary use case for Google Talk before video chat came along. On the other hand the Jingle spec [1] contains many references to SIP: "Furthermore, Jingle is not intended to supplant or replace existing Internet technologies based on the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP; RFC 3261). Because dual-stack XMPP+SIP clients are difficult to build, Jingle was…

If this had happened for email, we would have had to deal with a myriad of different clients, servers and 'interworking' gateways. I really don't understand why the likes of Google, Apple, Microsoft and the telcos can't agree on a standard. Guess business reasons are behind this. After all, walled gardens are great if you are the incumbent, it's how Skype got to be so valued. Maybe the FCC should step in and take thi…

If this had happened for email, we would have had to deal with a myriad of different clients, servers and 'interworking' gateways.

That was the networking prior to the wide adoption of IP and SMTP. There were DECnet mail clients, and clients for various other networking protocols, and users needed to know explicit bang-path routes and gateways.

Seeing this churn and this fragmentation is unpleasant, but it also means that you can see rapid advances and new features and different approaches. Once the market matures and the churn settles down, we'll see more of this sort out toward protocol consolidation.

In general, areas with high churn are some of the most interesting parts of the whole computer business. They're among the least mature, and often with the most innovations.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#25

Post by nl » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 1:49 AM UTC

sid0 wrote: post #18

pthatcherg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We care about gmail on all browsers :).

What about people who don't like or use the Gmail web UI (I use it over IMAP) but would still like to use Google Talk to stay in touch with friends? Is my only option to use third-party clients? I like Google Talk but dislike Gmail, and tying the two together doesn't really work out in my favour.

"What about people who don't like or use the Gmail web UI"

Well there is always http://talkgadget.google.com/talkgadget/client

Opening a webbrowser window with that and you are set. No Gmail UI, and you get video chat.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#26

Post by abraham » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 2:50 AM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #22

lenni wrote: post #9

Can iChat speak Jingle? I just tried the combination of web-based Gmail iChat and the web client can see that the iChat client has a camera and I can initiate a call but iChat never shows an incoming one. If I go iChat iChat over Google's XMPP server I can make a call. Does iChat speak yet another incompatible video call extension if it used with an XMPP network? Adium can't do AV either.... Can anyone recommend a OS…

What? Use the video chat built into Gmail. That doesn't utilize flash...

I'm pretty sure Gmail still uses flash for the audio but I could be wrong.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#27

Post by car » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 3:50 AM UTC

Hoff wrote: post #24

car wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this had happened for email, we would have had to deal with a myriad of different clients, servers and 'interworking' gateways. I really don't understand why the likes of Google, Apple, Microsoft and the telcos can't agree on a standard. Guess business reasons are behind this. After all, walled gardens are great if you are the incumbent, it's how Skype got to be so valued. Maybe the FCC should step in and take thi…

If this had happened for email, we would have had to deal with a myriad of different clients, servers and 'interworking' gateways. That was the networking prior to the wide adoption of IP and SMTP. There were DECnet mail clients, and clients for various other networking protocols, and users needed to know explicit bang-path routes and gateways. Seeing this churn and this fragmentation is unpleasant, but it also means…

I hadn't looked at it from this perspective, thank you for the enlightenment. I'm just too impatient.

What irks me is that the IETF keeps banging away at protocols to solve issues like the transition from PSTN to IP (e.g. ENUM), or IM interoperability, but then nobody really implements them, or as in the case of ENUM, the incumbent telcos, at least in the USA, sit on it forever. Or some startup cooks up their own solution and kills it, like Skype.

I'm all for interoperability sorting itself out, but it does not seem to happen in the messaging/real time communications space. We still have SMS, a gazillion IM protocols, and many isolated islands of video calling. Skype, Qik, MSN, Yahoo, FaceTime, Google, I could go on. On top of that is the confounding issue of different audio and video codecs and whatever patent issues surround them. A formidable gordian knot, of which it will be interesting to see how it will be cut - if ever.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#28

Post by mkopinsky » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 4:27 AM UTC

seabee wrote: post #13

ComputerGuru wrote: post #5

I wonder why the Windows client will officially not be updated to Jingle? If it was just "not at the moment," they would have either kept mum or said so, but to actually say that it won't be updated..... that says a lot.

The official client never got video chat support either. It's received very little love over the past couple of years. Personally I think the only native client they are interested in anymore is Gmail in Chrome...

Has it received _any_ love over the years? My impression is that the program came as a freebie with some acquisition and they've never touched it since. Opening up googletalk-setup.exe in Archive Manager (aka file-roller), it seems like the lastmodify date on the most recent files is January 1, 2007.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#29

Post by est » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 4:30 AM UTC

pthatcherg wrote: post #16

seabee wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official client never got video chat support either. It's received very little love over the past couple of years. Personally I think the only native client they are interested in anymore is Gmail in Chrome...

We care about gmail on all browsers :).

If you guys abandon the Windows client, why not make it open source and let the community maintain it? A slim native Windows XMPP client program is vey rare.

Some of us choose native program over Web app for a reason and I believe there are many like me would stick with it.

Re: Google switches GTalk's VOIP protocol to Jingle

#30

Post by drivebyacct2 » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 4:52 AM UTC

abraham wrote: post #26

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Use the video chat built into Gmail. That doesn't utilize flash...

I'm pretty sure Gmail still uses flash for the audio but I could be wrong.

I mean, I could be wrong, but any of the A/V functionality in Gmail requires that I install a DEB in Ubuntu and it works fine with click-to-enable flash (obviously I'm not enabling it on gmail :P)