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On Being an Outsider

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Re: On Being an Outsider

#41

Post by Baeocystin »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #5
pelagic_sky wrote: post #2

I have always loved Japan. I visited once, and made plans to move there. I lived in the heart of Tokyo for three years. I made a lot of friends, but being a white American, I came to grasps that I would always be a Gaijin, and that I would never fit in, no mater how well I spoke Japanese or adopted to their customs. I left Japan to focus on my future somewhere back in America. 10 years later I booked a three week tri…

I kind of have always felt like an outsider in the culture I grew up in. So I actually prefer to be in a country where I am visibly an outsider because it feels more congruent and weird behavior from me is also easier to excuse or accept.

I feel the same as you. I grew up as a kid with parents in the Foreign Service, so we country-hopped every year or so until I was a teen, when we moved back to the US.

That was (by far) the most difficult move, because there was no longer an obvious indicator that I wasn't from wherever there was. Acculturation was difficult.

Honestly, I never felt bad about being a foreigner anywhere else. Most people didn't care, and of those who did, most were honestly curious, and it was a fun way to start a conversation and potentially make a new friend. Negative attention was present, too, but the friendly outweighed the suspicious by a large margin.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#42

Post by Diederich »

BugsBunny1991 wrote: post #24

My parents were taken in as refugees by the US when they were in their early twenties and now, over forty years later, they still wonder if it was the right decision to stay here. They've made it to the middle-class and that's a pretty amazing thing, but they know this isn't their home. To go back, even for a visit, is too painful. So much time has past that it's hard to say what there is to even return to.

> they still wonder if it was the right decision to stay here

May I ask, what are the main reasons why they wonder that? Thanks.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#43

Post by ShroudedNight »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

As someone who grew up in Toronto, moved to Ottawa for University, and returned to the GTA for work, the thing that makes Toronto (especially the neighbourhood where I grew up) feel like home is a combination of deep familiarity with the city, a diverse set of memories of happy times untainted by adversary danger that are geographically rooted here, a strong sense of familiarity with assistive services, and (at least memories of) a strong social network.

In my case, being engaged with church was probably the most successful driver of these things. I'm in a very different place in terms of metaphysical beliefs now than I was growing up, but I can't deny the strong network effects of regularly meeting with a group of people that seek ostensibly compatible goals of self-improvement through empathy, service, and self-congratulation.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#44

Post by logshipper »

haecceity wrote: post #38
joefourier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overthinking the "where are you from" question. While I do agree that moving at 18 isn't as clear-cut as say, 30+, in your case most people would safely say you're from India, having been born there and lived the majority of your years there. However, your home would now be Toronto, and you if you have Canadian citizenship no-one should bat any eyebrows at you calling yourself Canadian.

I don't think OP is overthinking it at all. Home is not just a question of place of living but a question of identity and belonging. I'm guessing integrating into society in Toronto is difficult for OP so there's weak feeling of belonging in Toronto.

You're right in that home is also a question of identity and belonging. It's just that while I would say that I am fairly well adjusted to Toronto (heck I started playing hockey on a frozen pond this past winter), there's always going to be this "vacuum" of sorts (just from the virtue of not having had any roots here whatsoever) that keeps me from feeling like I can say I am from here. Its a question of making peace with it, is all :)

Re: On Being an Outsider

#47

Post by collaborative »

DrJones1098 wrote: post #37

I'm glad people are talking about this. I think capitalism is extremely isolating. You have to move for your job, so people have to cut all the ties that they've made, leave their communities, friends, families....all for money. Sure you can make new ones, but after working and commuting for 8 to 10 hours a day you get home exhausted and on weekends you have to take care of personal errands. Now multiply this times m…

I think the post is more about the isolation that comes from utopic ideologies/nationalisms (via displaced "undesirable" persons) than about the failures of capitalism/communism etc. The dark pictures remind me of how an "undesirable" person feels in an intolerant society

Re: On Being an Outsider

#48

Post by pedalpete »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

I was born in Toronto, moved around a bunch as a kid, and Toronto just never felt like home. If I was going to Toronto, I'd never say "I'm going home to Toronto". I moved to Whistler, BC when I was 20, and lived there most of my life.

I now live in Sydney, Australia, and when I say "I'm going home", I mean I'm going to Whistler, not Toronto. Whistler feels like home.

Yet, when I say "I'm from Whistler", people always say "you were born there?" which is very rare, so I have to explain that I moved around a bunch and didn't have a place that felt like "home", which people then discount.

It's very strange, but at the same time, I've read a few people suggest that you're "from" the first place you consciously decided to move from and stayed.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#49

Post by tharkun__ »

haecceity wrote: post #38
joefourier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overthinking the "where are you from" question. While I do agree that moving at 18 isn't as clear-cut as say, 30+, in your case most people would safely say you're from India, having been born there and lived the majority of your years there. However, your home would now be Toronto, and you if you have Canadian citizenship no-one should bat any eyebrows at you calling yourself Canadian.

I don't think OP is overthinking it at all. Home is not just a question of place of living but a question of identity and belonging. I'm guessing integrating into society in Toronto is difficult for OP so there's weak feeling of belonging in Toronto.

That's mixing things up. There was no question of home, belonging or feelings.

The simple simple answer to the simple question of where he's from may depend on the context asked in. Say he's in Toronto and someone asks where he is from. Simple answer: India.

Let's say he's in Ottawa, say for a training course or something. Same question asked. Simple answer: I'm from India but I've been living in Toronto for 5 years.

If he's doing a PR or citizenship, add that: I'm from India but live in Toronto and I'm doing my citizenship process right now.

It's really not that hard and yes the guy is overthinking it if you ask me. I've been in that situation. It's really easy to answer. He may get asked more often because he's a 'visible minority' but otherwise it's the same.

The question was not: where do you feel at home? or something in that direction.

If he was born and raised in Toronto (say his parents came to Canada from India) then because he's a visible minority people might expect him to answer "from India" while answering "from Canada" would make it clear what his situation is. One might answer "from Canada, born and raised in Toronto but my parents came over from India in the 70s" (or some such).

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