Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 196 posts

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#171

Post by imtringued »

r00fus wrote: post #136
altendo wrote: post #61

I am always struck at the amount that states and municipalities are willing to write off in order to attract companies. On one hand, I understand that companies want to take the best deal, but on the other hand, at times local governments are willing to give up so much money in tax revenue. I remember reading about the competitions for Google Fiber and Amazon's second HQ - it felt absurd the amount cities and states…

Let's just call it what is is: corruption. Corruption isn't just something that happens in 3rd world countries. Alive and well in the US of A.

It's corporate welfare.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#172

Post by imtringued »

r00fus wrote: post #157
data_spy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it was actually a Governor who didn't know math more so than corruption. At least for the original terms in 2017.

Do you actually believe that? Gov. Walker was notorious for various other corrupt activities as well. In other terms, grey's law applies here: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice

It would be corruption if he personally benefits from the project, e.g. by selling land to Foxconn. I don't know the specific details to know if it really was a case of corruption.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#173

Post by 1cvmask »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #162
1cvmask wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the downvotes on your comments begin....

Yup, it is what it is. Good news is the points mean nothing and there are plenty of critical thinkers still on this forum. BTW is it tow or toe the line? Homonyms always catch me up!

Toe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#174

Post by r00fus »

imtringued wrote: post #172
r00fus wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe that? Gov. Walker was notorious for various other corrupt activities as well. In other terms, grey's law applies here: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice

It would be corruption if he personally benefits from the project, e.g. by selling land to Foxconn. I don't know the specific details to know if it really was a case of corruption.

A load of bitcoin in a hidden wallet? Not that visible. Easy to disguise.

The payoff could be very hard to find, but the malfeasance in public office is clear as day.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#175

Post by josefdlange »

munificent wrote: post #170
josefdlange wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to process this kind of cynicism, accurate though it is. Not your demeanor, by the way, friend, just the reality of it all. Ironic that I speak of willful ignorance and yet am happy to not think too hard about the very things you've called out here.

I really don't mean this to sound cynical, though I can see how it comes across. I think it's more about understanding human psychology and trying to use that understanding to empathize with and understand why people behave in seemingly irrational ways. As a tribal primate species are absolutely hard-wired to seek ways to provide value to our tribe. Being worthless to the tribe means being left in the forest, which w…

Oh definitely -- I'm not detecting cynicism in you and maybe it's the wrong choice of word. I'm more feeling a sense of disappointment in what you're saying being true. It's tragic, in truth.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#176

Post by waterheater »

KZZ wrote: post #79
waterheater wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard evidence? No. The exact plot of land they chose is not particularly remarkable, so I must wonder why they chose a piece of land straddling the watershed, given that the Compact [1] indirectly applies to corporations. There's a deeper political aspect to Foxconn's presence that I can't trust. I'm from Wisconsin, and the whole Foxconn deal leaves me feeling extremely uneasy. Leaving aside the Wisconsin and USA pol…

Also a Wisconsinite here. I've been involved with the deal and haven't noticed any care about any watershed related things. Most of the business they've attracted so far are companies who want contract manufacturing outside of mainland China. The large "screen factory" is still largely empty, and they have no concrete plans for it, but the side projects which piggybacked on to that plan have seen some success.

What projects might those be? Genuinely curious, as I haven't heard any news about them.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#177

Post by jrumbut »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #166
jrumbut wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a problem for the partners in the joint private/public venture. It is a problem for the next jurisdiction that is now facing companies' expectations of massive incentives, for the existing residents and businesses that are paying normal taxes because they aren't new, for any but the largest businesses who don't have lobbyists on staff, etc. There's also the general wisdom that life is better when you'…

I see your point and agree that from the fairness point of view this is not quite right. However, I do not see fairness as relevant in this context. Unless it is Walmart that is getting tax breaks for building a bunch of stores in NYC, local businesses do not oppose big companies getting incentives to move in.

Perhaps they don't but I'm not as focused on the relationship between the company and jurisdiction, I'm talking about the externalities.

Desperate places give away the store to get anything at all, and it depresses what companies are willing to offer the next place while also tilting the playing field toward big companies with the ability to negotiate these kind of deals.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#178

Post by greedo »

danhak wrote: post #64
altendo wrote: post #61

I am always struck at the amount that states and municipalities are willing to write off in order to attract companies. On one hand, I understand that companies want to take the best deal, but on the other hand, at times local governments are willing to give up so much money in tax revenue. I remember reading about the competitions for Google Fiber and Amazon's second HQ - it felt absurd the amount cities and states…

They’re not really “giving up” anything if they attract a business that otherwise wouldn’t be there at all. It’s still a net gain to have a major employer in your locale, along with all the other economic benefits and tax revenue that entails.

They usually don't gain many jobs, and the tax benefits are usually given away as part of the package to attract the business.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#179

Post by anitil »

kimar wrote: post #33

There's a great Reply All podcast about local politics in the town where this plant is to be built. Beware, it's slightly infuriating. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhjwd

A great episode!

(RIP Reply All, you'll be missed)

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#180

Post by seattle_spring »

notional wrote: post #115

The absolute hilarity of HN obsession with 'both siding' every story and going back to see how it unraveled over the years. on Jan 22, 2017 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13457176 on Jan 16, 2018 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16163558 on April 14, 2018 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839542 on Oct 29, 2018 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18328772 on April 12, 2020 - https://news.ycomb…

HN is a large collection of people with diverse opinions, not just one person who decides to swing their opinion one way or the other on a given day.
Post reply on HN