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Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

bbc.com

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Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#191

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gwright wrote: post #185
Ancapistani wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, here’s the IMO database entry on the MV Aman. It provides much additional context. https://www.ilo.org/dyn/seafarers/seafarersbrowse.details?p_... In particular, here’s a recent update that sheds some light on why Mr. Aisha remained aboard - in short, he refused to leave unless and until he was paid the wages due to him: Govt. of Bahrain (7 March 2021) From Registration of Ships & Seamen Affairs I would like to h…

This seems like pretty important information if correct. A huge portion of the HN discussion is moot if the Mr. Aisha chose to remain. Seems like he could have continued his fight for the outstanding wages elsewhere.

If I understood that correctly, "chose to remain" because if he didn't, he would lose his claim for wages for the time he was stuck on the ship. That's a fair amount of money.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#192

Post by politician »

eastbayjake wrote: post #38

The Egyptian legal system is not known for its fairness... the World Justice Project ranks it 125 of 128 surveyed countries, in last place out of 8 countries in the Middle East[1] Similarly (and tragically) the Syrian government is not known for its compassion towards its distressed citizens. [1] https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/country/Eg...

Egypt is about to be dried out. Ethopia is building a dam on the Blue Nile and will have the ability to fully control how much water reaches Egypt.

It seems that the lack of compassion that Egypt has for its neighbors will be repaid in kind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ethiopian_Renaissance_Da...

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#193

Post by lolinder »

novok wrote: post #179
jollybean wrote: post #130

Folks - this is what we are outsourcing and externalizing. When foreign entities are able to bid for a lot less, and pay a lot less, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they will not bother with 'end of life' for ships, or getting insurance, or worrying about the lives of people who are 'expendable'. Those very nice buildings in Dubai come from some nasty labour practices. If every piece of this puzzle from end-…

The fault here is ultimately with egypt. They were not letting him leave, they took his passport and not even letting him get 'deported' back to his home country. This is not from outsourcing, this is Kafkaesque bureaucracy created by Egypt itself.

Egypt definitely has fault here, but the company that owns the ship could have gotten the ship out of there if they cared about him at all. Yes, it might have been expensive, but I would expect a US based company to have rescued him within weeks of this situation starting, not years.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#194

Post by lame-robot-hoax »

justinator wrote: post #186
justinator wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Downvote me all you want it's not not true. Rich people don't exist without exploiting the poor; so too with countries. I'm not sorry if you're wealthy and this is hurting too close to home, better live with it if you also want to be so wealthy.

Trade isn’t zero sum.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#195

Post by birktj »

I don't get it. I might be misunderstanding things, but my understanding is that here in Norway the owner of a vessel has the ultimate responsibility in cases like these. Why is the Egyptian law this way? It doesn't seem very practical to legally require this one guy to stay on board, what problem is that supposed to solve?

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#196

Post by jollybean »

justinator wrote: post #186
justinator wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Downvote me all you want it's not not true. Rich people don't exist without exploiting the poor; so too with countries. I'm not sorry if you're wealthy and this is hurting too close to home, better live with it if you also want to be so wealthy.

Countries mostly become rich by being highly socially organized, and having a high standard for individual contribution.

For example, 'gold' imported by ill-gotten means from some far off land actually provides 0 value in terms of material value creation. Of course 'oil' does, but remember the 'House of Saud' is kept in power by the US not with the promise of US access to 'cheap oil', rather, with the promise it will be sold at full value, on the open market - just not in some kind of strategic/complicated/backwater setup with the then Soviet Union or China. The US didn't 'go in and take all the oil', which they definitely had the power to do.

This exemplifies, in perhaps a crude, ham-fisted realpolitik manner the 'enforcement of trust' in systems I alluded to in my original comment: it's actually the US (and ultimately everyone's) interest to uphold fairly basic commercial and humanitarian standards in the long run.

And to be fair, these problems are to some extent a function of capitalism, because only 'very large' systems have the opportunity to plan on the generational scale, ergo, there's effectively no commercial enterprise for which the implementation of such standards really matters, that's generally the purview of governments.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#197

Post by Invictus0 »

jandrese wrote: post #8

It is supremely unfair for the court to assign him full responsibility for the ship, but without any power over it. If the court were serious about the situation they should have handed the ship over to him entirely. He could then put the ship up on the market for whomever wanted to buy it or sell it to a scrapping company. If you think this would be unfair to the ships owners this is exactly the point. Force them to…

> It is supremely unfair for the court to assign him full responsibility for the ship, but without any power over it. If the court were serious about the situation they should have handed the ship over to him entirely. He could then put the ship up on the market for whomever wanted to buy it or sell it to a scrapping company.

This doesn't really solve the problem, it just moves the problem around to the free market. What if no one wanted to buy it for scrap? Would he be responsible for cleaning up the situation himself? The court should have impounded the ship using Egypt's own coast guard and billed the company for the coast guard's time.

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#198

Post by zaphirplane »

gowld wrote: post #173
BurningFrog wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reading the article, they just for some legal reason need a person on board the ship. So maybe people could volunteer to replace them on a rolling schedule.

The Egyptian law is ridiculous. The government should hire coast guard staff to supervise the boat.

I assume the purpose of holding someone physically accountable is to make it harder to use countries as ship parking lots

Re: Stranded sailor allowed to leave abandoned ship after four years

#200

Post by aidenn0 »

justinator wrote: post #186
justinator wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Downvote me all you want it's not not true. Rich people don't exist without exploiting the poor; so too with countries. I'm not sorry if you're wealthy and this is hurting too close to home, better live with it if you also want to be so wealthy.

The wealthy exploiting the poor predates capitalism by 10s of thousands of years.
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