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How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

germantechjobs.de

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Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#261

Post by dzonga »

lacker wrote: post #154
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also get (probably) 30 days of paid vacation a year and up to 6 weeks of sick pay paid by the employer (and after that by your health insurance). You can't just compare the raw numbers to get a full picture.

I mean it's just so far off. Check levels.fyi, Google/Airbnb/Coinbase will be paying $300k+ for software engineers with 4+ years of experience.

> I mean it's just so far off. Check levels.fyi, Google/Airbnb/Coinbase will be paying $300k+ for software engineers with 4+ years of experience.

Don't know why people here like quoting those companies as if they're representatives of the industry in general. Even in 'SV' most startups are not paying 300k. Most likely 150k~ for a senior.

Median dev job earnings in the US are around 90k. Last time I remember from bls

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#262

Post by pyjug »

dzonga wrote: post #258
pyjug wrote: post #254

The salaries in Germany for engineers are astoundingly low. Good engineers from India (I'm Indian working in SV) often ask me if it's worth migrating to Germany since US immigration is so hard. The answer is absolutely not -- you can easily make 70k USD in India as a decent mid-level engineer which is the same as Germany. And you get to live like a king in your own country, don't have to learn German, put up with rac…

> you can easily make 70k USD in India as a decent mid-level engineer not that I know anything about Indian tech companies but please don't say that compensation is at FAANG companies. because those are not representative of the industry in general. Otherwise why would India be known for cheap dev's if Mid-levels can easily earn 70k.

Indian tech salaries are very bi-modal. I'm not talking about body shops here - I'm talking about capable engineers who can get hired in SV, though not necessarily at FAANG. Think tier 2/3 cos. These engineers know their worth and want to maximize their earning potential. If it were easy to immigrate to the US they would choose SV in a heartbeat, but are looking for alternatives. My advice to them it's either SV or stay back in India, it's certainly not worth immigrating to Germany (I don't know about other EU countries, only have first hand experience in Germany)

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#263

Post by betaby »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #243
IdiocyInAction wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, seniors can make like 70-80k€ where I live, which is like the 3rd percentile in my country. Still true though, the salaries are not great compared to the US. Is Canada that much better though? I briefly considered it but I determined that the high rents and not so high wages would not be worth it for a move.

The situation in Canada changed a lot in the past 2-3 years. It used to be that hearing about people making 200k mid-career in Canada was rare, now it's becoming more common. You're still taking a ~25% pay cut compared to the US. It really depends though, if you work for a large US company in Canada you are far better off than working for a Canadian company. > Well, seniors can make like 70-80k€ where I live, which i…

Canada is Vancouver or Calgary? What place you have in mind? Speaking for Montreal 200k basically unheard here. Industry is predominately gaming or banking, and the talking about median of 100k base for senior, bonuses are around 10%

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#264

Post by maccard »

ramraj07 wrote: post #221
maccard wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this point many many times on this site, but if you make 150k in san Francisco, and pay 4k a month on rent, you have more left over after rent and tax than a mid level developer in europe makes as a gross salary.

But the avocado toast ain’t cheap either! Neither is your Soulcycle class! People seem to find a way to spend their money one way or another anyway! But if you save the money, sure. However if you still buy the house in SF with that savings you tend to again lose all benefit. Thus the only way to do this correctly is make a lot of money in Sf for a decade, save most of it, move to some European country and don’t earn…

> But the avocado toast ain’t cheap either! Neither is your Soulcycle class

A soulcycle class is $35/pop. Even at one a day, on top of $4000/month for rent, and income tax, you're still left with roughly the amount a mid level engineer in a european city (excluding maybe London) makes pre-tax. No amount of Avocado toast, or whatever the sneaker fad changes that equation.

> However if you still buy the house in SF with that savings you tend to again lose all benefit.

That's no different to buying a house in London or Amsterdam say, except once you've dumped $1m into your "modest" home, you're still earning 2.5x what the person in London/Amsterdam is.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#265

Post by closeparen »

dzonga wrote: post #258
pyjug wrote: post #254

The salaries in Germany for engineers are astoundingly low. Good engineers from India (I'm Indian working in SV) often ask me if it's worth migrating to Germany since US immigration is so hard. The answer is absolutely not -- you can easily make 70k USD in India as a decent mid-level engineer which is the same as Germany. And you get to live like a king in your own country, don't have to learn German, put up with rac…

> you can easily make 70k USD in India as a decent mid-level engineer not that I know anything about Indian tech companies but please don't say that compensation is at FAANG companies. because those are not representative of the industry in general. Otherwise why would India be known for cheap dev's if Mid-levels can easily earn 70k.

That's still a $40k discount from the median US wage of $110k.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#266

Post by qwytw »

BigMajestic wrote: post #149
light_hue_1 wrote: post #140

Any time these guides come up they are simply shocking. I love Europe, I grew up there. I don't understand why anyone would stay as a developer in the EU. Software is simply not valued. Dev salaries are astounding. Senior engineers in the EU make less than entry level undergrads in the US or Canada. 60k Euros is 70k USD. People out of bootcamps with zero experience make more than that in the US. I don't have a single…

And even those 60k Euro is for western Europe. In central-eastern Europe it's around half of it.

I guess it's differs quite a bit between specific countries, but where I live (which is pretty close to as far east as you can get without leaving the EU) that might had been the case a couple of years ago, but now 60k pre tax is not at all an exceptional salary reasonable for a senior developer (I'd around 80k is close to the upper bound). And the living expenses are not even close to the more expensive W. European cities, you can get a fairly decent 2 bedroom apartment in a relatively good area for below 200k.

To be fair the gap between senior developer and entry level salaries is pretty big here. Entry level salaries might around 30k (which is close to the median overall full time salary here if you live in the capital).

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#267

Post by imtringued »

csomar wrote: post #131
lbrito wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution. If not even this is enough to pursue home ownership, what kind of people are able to afford a house? Honest question.

1- By living with roommates and renting a room (sometimes half a room). 2- By taking painfully long commutes to cheaper locations. 3- By living with parents/partner. This is not an option for most people, but probably what makes moving to a job a difficult situation. > what kind of people are able to afford a house? Apparently, half of Germany can't afford a home. - https://www.statista.com/statistics/246355/home-own…

Renting was a pretty good deal in Germany. Urbanization has caught up and its a terrible deal in major cities.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#268

Post by light_hue_1 »

betaby wrote: post #263
light_hue_1 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in Canada changed a lot in the past 2-3 years. It used to be that hearing about people making 200k mid-career in Canada was rare, now it's becoming more common. You're still taking a ~25% pay cut compared to the US. It really depends though, if you work for a large US company in Canada you are far better off than working for a Canadian company. > Well, seniors can make like 70-80k€ where I live, which i…

Canada is Vancouver or Calgary? What place you have in mind? Speaking for Montreal 200k basically unheard here. Industry is predominately gaming or banking, and the talking about median of 100k base for senior, bonuses are around 10%

GTA and Vancouver. No idea how the rest of Canada is. Yeah, I hear that gaming in Montreal is poorly paid and Canadian banks don't care about software; I don't know anyone that is well paid by a Canadian bank.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#269

Post by wikibob »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #202
lacker wrote: post #123

The salaries seem really low. The absolute highest paying job listed on their site is a 110,000 euro salary, but you can get more than that with zero experience in California. I wonder if it would be better for software engineers in Germany to simply get remote working jobs for US companies.

US companies don't pay 100k+ in Europe. Amazon pays like 60k base for SDE1 where I live and I think Google pays 70k+ base.

That is not correct.

https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

https://twitter.com/gergelyorosz/status/1372918536566403073

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#270

Post by legulere »

sneak wrote: post #211
Nimitz14 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous statement. The homocide rate is so much higher in the US. Hard to believe anything you say.

It's much higher in about five specific counties in the US. The vast majority of the US has less violent crime overall (guns, plus everything else) than most large cities in Europe. For a simple example in Berlin you get pepper sprayed by stick-up kids, whereas in the US mountain west there isn't much mugging at all (due to the fact that a mugger is about 50/50 to get a wallet or a bullet in response). The mistake is…

Lowest homicide rate in a US State is 1.5 in Maine, average is 5. Germany has 0.9 on average.

In general poverty (which is more common in the US) leads to violence and other crimes. Bringing weapons into conflicts usually escalated them and leads to worse outcomes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...

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