Ubuntu 21.04 • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#261

Post by nickthemagicman » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #233

nickthemagicman wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I LOVE Ubuntu. I don't think people realize how important a well supported DESKTOP experience is for open source adoption by the mainstream users. The mainstream doesn't care about zshell or fish shell or vim. All they see is the graphical desktop experience, for their email or browser. If that market can be brought into the open source world away from the giant companies that would be a huge win for open source. And…

That's clear! It's just that many of us have been conditioned by internet snark to read comments like the GP cynically, unless they contain disambiguating information (as your comment here does). You did nothing wrong, but I have a hunch that ambiguity may have been the source of some downvotes.

Good point. It does have kind of a hyperbolic snark about it if one didn't know that I was a little bit of a fanatic for Ubuntu. :)

I kind of get the downvotes.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#262

Post by CrazyPyroLinux » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #29

suby wrote: post #11

It's interesting to see Wayland enabled by default. I'm curious to know what state Wayland is in nowadays, especially regarding how well it works with Nvidia cards. The last time I tried it out was around 2017ish when Fedora enabled it by default. It was 100% not ready then as it wouldn't even boot into the desktop with my nvidia card. Is it actually ready now? Does it work with nvidia cards? Does GPU acceleration wo…

Depends a lot on the compositor. I've been running on Sway for about half a year. It's 99% perfect — the only thing I'm missing is smooth high-DPI scaling for XWayland windows . Note, smooth high-DPI scaling is good for Wayland programs – I'm just talking about that one piece of software that I use that still needs X (Emacs). Before christmas I played around with Plasma on Wayland. It mostly works, but there were som…

Yes! I've been using Sway for years and it's amazing! Very underrated.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#263

Post by pier25 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

tomComb wrote: post #90

pier25 wrote: post #82

> Firefox, OBS Studio and many applications built with Electron and Flutter Many applications built with Flutter? Such as?

The full sentence is about them being able to take advantage of Wayland automatically. It appears to me that you've clipped the quote to change the meaning.

This is the full quote:

> Firefox, OBS Studio and many applications built with Electron and Flutter take advantage of Wayland automatically, for smoother graphics and better fractional scaling.

It implies that there are already many application built with Electron and Flutter.

My question is simply: what Flutter applications?

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#264

Post by CrazyPyroLinux » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

intergalplan wrote: post #221

simion314 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So KDE will have same issues ? I am wondering if they can architect it somehow where you put minimal code in the compositor and move the window management, and the complex effects (like zoom and animation) into a different process. If Linux would have decided to use Mir would have at least shared same "server" code and probably also get around this issues but is hard to promote quality when Gnome and RedHat has a dif…

In fact, KDE might have entirely different issues that cause the same problems. The frustrating thing about Wayland's design is that every single WM/DE now gets to have its own, unique set of "crash the world" stability bugs.

(I'm not denying that possibility, and I'm only one datapoint, but) In practice I have only ever seen one DE (GNOME) with these "crash the world" stability bugs, and they also happen on X, which makes me think the problems are not with Wayland.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#265

Post by whitepoplar » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

pjdkoch wrote: post #241

whitepoplar wrote: post #113

Does this release support ZFS on root (even as experimental) for server installs?

Yep, I saw a checkbox for that.

Just to clarify, that's for the server ISO, not the desktop ISO? I know that as of 20.10, ZFS on root was available on desktop ISOs but not server ISOs.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#266

Post by vladstudio » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

I cannot imagine myself using the default wallpaper, so I made an alternative: https://vlad.studio/wallpaper/ubuntu_hirsute_hippo

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#267

Post by CrazyPyroLinux » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

intergalplan wrote: post #240

Quekid5 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (seemingly everything, nothing is ever Wayland's fault or responsibility) That's because there is no such thing as "wayland" actually running on your machine -- it's simply a protocol for compositors and applications to talk to each other.

> That's because there is no such thing as "wayland" actually running on your machine -- it's simply a protocol for compositors and applications to talk to each other. "Wayland" is also an implementation. The protocol and implementation share a name. By the look of things, Gnome does indeed require it (that is, various "libwayland" packages) on Ubuntu.

(I'm not the one who downvoted you, so have an upvote, but) I think they renamed their reference implementation to "Weston" to differentiate it from the Wayland spec/interface. Gnome implements its own, as does KDE, as does Sway. But I'm a simple person, and in my eyes even bare Weston is "good enough" in that "startx" sort of way...

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#268

Post by jvdvegt » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

vikbytes wrote: post #6

Looks like their download page has not yet been updated to offer 21.04? https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop

It's not LTS, so you need to scroll down a bit.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#269

Post by simion314 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

CrazyPyroLinux wrote: post #264

intergalplan wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, KDE might have entirely different issues that cause the same problems. The frustrating thing about Wayland's design is that every single WM/DE now gets to have its own, unique set of "crash the world" stability bugs.

(I'm not denying that possibility, and I'm only one datapoint, but) In practice I have only ever seen one DE (GNOME) with these "crash the world" stability bugs, and they also happen on X, which makes me think the problems are not with Wayland.

GNOME crashes a lot probably because of how people are forced to patch the DE with extensions or maybe even the bad quality of their code, but I have crashes of KWin or Plasma hangs sometimes on X , so KDE is not perfect and if I would use wayland on my NVIDIA system I would be hit with work losing crashes. KWin and Plasma are pretty complex so there will always be bugs , this is why I am wondering if there can be soem kind of refactoring to a safer architecture.

Re: Ubuntu 21.04

#270

Post by CrazyPyroLinux » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

intergalplan wrote: post #137

CrazyPyroLinux wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this a GNOME architecture issue? Yes. And always has been since like forever ago. I'm all for choice and diversity, but I've personally never understood all the love and excitement and attention that GNOME has gotten ever since Canonical got behind it and dropped Unity. I'm certainly not it's target audience - running XFCE, LXDE/LXQT, and i3/Sway over the years - but it really gobsmacks me to hear the cheerleadi…

What's surprised me about modern Gnome is how much heavier and worse-performing it is than... KDE. What a reversal compared with the Gnome2 days.

Agreed - I should clarify that my Gnome gripes are mainly about how they failed to "get it right" with Gnome3. I don't really have any specific criticism of the old Gnome2 - Both it and KDE were too heavy for me in those days.